The [Three] [Wise Men] With Eric Vanden Eykel

Daniel Beecher (0:01)

All we have left is Orient. We know that they were from the East, right? You're not taking that away from us, are you?

Daniel McClellan (0:07)

That's not a great word to use there. Everybody, I'm Dan McClellan.

Daniel Beecher (0:18)

And I'm Dan Beecher.

Daniel McClellan (0:19)

And you are listening to the Data Over Dogma podcast, where we increase public access to the academic study of the Bible and religion and combat the spread of misinformation about the same. How goes the combat, Dan?

Daniel Beecher (0:32)

Man, we're out there. It's the most wonderful time of the year.

Or maybe when this airs, it's a little bit after the most wonderful time of the year.

Daniel McClellan (0:41)

Well, it depends on your proclivities. If you're a Western Christian or an Eastern Christian, sometimes, you know, some of those people like to hold things off for a little bit.

Daniel Beecher (0:50)

That's true. There are dating questions at play. But that's not what today's episode is about.

We'll probably have to get to that at some point.

Daniel McClellan (0:59)

Yeah, at some point. They're busting down the door about that.

Daniel Beecher (1:02)

But today, we've got a fun guest. Dan, do you want to tell us who we have, who our mystery person is on today's show?

Daniel McClellan (1:10)

Absolutely. Today, we're going to be talking with a friend of mine, Eric Vanden Eykel. He is associate professor of religion and also the Forrest S. Williams teaching chair in the humanities at Ferrum College just south of Roanoke, Virginia.

So welcome to the show, Eric. How are you doing today?

Eric Vanden Eykel (1:27)

I am doing great. Thanks for having me on.

Daniel McClellan (1:30)

Well, thank you for your time. Thank you for being here. We appreciate it.

And what are we talking about today, Eric? Is it this book right here, The Magi?

Eric Vanden Eykel (1:40)

It is that beautiful blue book on the Magi. Yeah, this is a book.

Daniel McClellan (1:44)

Go ahead.

Eric Vanden Eykel (1:45)

It's a book that I published last year on the mysterious visitors in the Gospel of Matthew.

Daniel Beecher (1:52)

I don't know what's so mysterious. I mean, I think we all know the story.

Obviously, three dudes show up, they follow a star, they go, they visit, they're wearing crazy clothing, and they each have a single gift to give, and then they go home. What's hard about this?

Daniel McClellan (2:15)

You have a savior, yeah.

Eric Vanden Eykel (2:17)

Yeah, I mean, they're right there on the cover, right? You forgot the bit about their crowns, though, I think.

Daniel Beecher (2:22)

Yeah, because they're kings. We know that they are kings.

Daniel McClellan (2:25)

Embossed, yeah.

Eric Vanden Eykel (2:26)

Oh, yeah, no, beautiful cover, yeah.

Daniel Beecher (2:30)

So I think that, you know, for a... I mean, this isn't a large part of the Bible. It's in one gospel.

It's... I mean, we're not even talking about like four chapters or whatever. What are we talking about here?

Eric Vanden Eykel (2:47)

No, we're talking about like 12 verses.

And yeah, only in Matthew and only very briefly. And the story is so short and so lacking in detail, right? And so the sort of, you know, all of the hymns and the iconography and everything that kind of develops around these characters, when people go back and reread the story, they're often surprised at how little there actually is there. Because there's just nothing. There's hardly any detail at all.

Daniel McClellan (3:18)

And we're going to talk a little bit more about this later, but there's an awful lot that has accreted to the tradition over the centuries. And a lot of what we, when we picture it in our heads, kind of like the way we picture Moses, sometimes it's Whitney Houston and it's the Prince of Egypt that is actually front and center in our imagination and the way we recreate these stories with the Magi or Magi, if you're nasty.

There are other traditions that are influencing how we think about that. I'm looking forward to talking about some of these things and particularly some of the apocryphal tales that influence our understanding of the story.

Daniel Beecher (3:55)

You mentioned the different pronunciations. When I was looking, I sort of looked into this in a very non-academic way a few years ago and I saw the word M-A-G-U-S used as sort of like a transliteration or something of the Greek or whatever. So now for me, for the rest of my life in my mind, I'm going to think of the three Magoos.

I don't think that's correct, but that's how I prefer to think of them.