The Self Slaying of Joss Whedon with Jackie Zebrowski

**Holden** (0:00)
The Self Slaying of Joss Whedon Joss Whedon, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Firefly, Cabin in the Woods, Avengers. By 2012, it appeared that this man was unstoppable, a champion of feminist works who brought comic books to the big screen on a level not yet seen before. But a few years later, opinions of his work started to change, first with Avengers Age of Ultron, then with his version of Justice League. And starting in 2017 and especially in 2020, allegations of toxic workplace behavior came to light, which led to Joss Whedon exiting his HBO show, The Nevers, in 2020 He has not put out a project of any kind since.
On today's Roundtable, I have our special guest, Jackie, here to represent the Buffy Contingent and speak for all women everywhere.

**Jackie Zebrowski** (1:07)
All vagina havers that exist.

**Holden** (1:09)
Absolutely, and non-vagina having women as well.

**Jackie Zebrowski** (1:13)
No, I think that he was mostly going after the ones with vaginas, I think is really the thing. But you know, that's, who knows what he's against now.

**Mike Lawrence** (1:22)
He was a nerf hunter and those nerfs had to have a pussy.

**Holden** (1:25)
Oh my god. Here representing the MCU contingent, we have Mike Lawrence.

**Mike Lawrence** (1:31)
Yeah.

**Jackie Zebrowski** (1:32)
Yeah.

**Mike Lawrence** (1:33)
I also like DC enough to hate what he did with it.

**Holden** (1:39)
And Jake's here just for funsies, for vibes.

**Jake Young** (1:41)
I represent friendly, outward people that try to be an ally and I'm deeply terrified that I'm just masking a darkness that cannot be contained.

**Jackie Zebrowski** (1:50)
Absolutely.

**Mike Lawrence** (1:51)
I represent the Shakespeare.

**Jackie Zebrowski** (1:52)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

**Mike Lawrence** (1:53)
It's like you just film people hanging out at your house. That's not really a movie.

**Jake Young** (1:57)
Fuck you. I represent guys that think adding a horse to something makes it funny.

**Holden** (2:02)
So, you know, we could start with a brief gush because we have so much to cover today, but I do want to just get it out on the table. You know, when I was more on Page 7, and I think-

**Mike Lawrence** (2:14)
Yes, you were the moron.

**Jackie Zebrowski** (2:16)
Moron on Page 7

**Holden** (2:18)
Much to people's glee, I stopped doing the Buffy watch alongs, they've been doing Buffy watch alongs on Page 7

**Jackie Zebrowski** (2:24)
They really didn't want you involved, but it was mostly because he would make fun of it. So, and the people that-

**Holden** (2:31)
And make a lot of jizz jokes.

**Jackie Zebrowski** (2:32)
And it was mostly, and we already had Xander, which for people that have watched Buffy, it's like, you do know that that's obviously where Joss Whedon was funneling a lot of how he felt. And Holden, of course, immediately identified with Xander. And that, it was something I had to come to terms with, even just the fact that you're one of my best friends.

**Holden** (2:54)
That's me, I'm the Xander.

**Jackie Zebrowski** (2:55)
You are the Xander, and that's crazy to me.

**Mike Lawrence** (2:58)
I love when someone says, it's something I had to come to terms with when they're wearing a rapist on their shirt. Yeah, well, he's not.

**Jackie Zebrowski** (3:04)
He's not.

**Mike Lawrence** (3:05)
Oh, he tried.

**Jackie Zebrowski** (3:06)
But he tried.

**Mike Lawrence** (3:08)
I watched just enough to find that problem out.
I was not a Buffy fan growing up, but I knew him. Wizard Magazine sang the praises of this guy. In some ways, this almost feels like the other side of our Kevin Smith episode.

**Holden** (3:25)
I thought to myself, Kevin Smith walked so that Joss Whedon could run.

**Mike Lawrence** (3:29)
But where he is beloved in hindsight, and only reached a certain ceiling, this guy broke through to heights unknown and is done forever. I just want to say this to the audience, we're not doing a trial because we know what he did, we're not defending it, and we do think he's doing it.

**Holden** (3:51)
We're going to look at why. Jake brought up a good point to me when I was really uncovering what causes created this monster.
As I talk about the seeds that created this thing, I'm not going, and this is why we should feel bad for Joss, not at all.

**Jackie Zebrowski** (4:07)
But I do think it's fascinating. I do think it's fascinating.

**Holden** (4:11)
And so can you speak towards your experience? What's funny is Jackie actually has two episodes left in her Page 7 Watch Along, has not fully completed the Buffy series.

**Jackie Zebrowski** (4:21)
So I said out the gate that if any three of you spoil the final two episodes, I know that it came out a long time ago, but I've gotten this far and have watched it with this many people and no one has spoiled the absolute end.