The Role of Empathy in Leadership with Liesel Mindrebo Mertes

**SPEAKER_2** (0:03)
The Bliss Business Podcast, the show about empathy, connection, and consciousness in business. Today's episode is brought to you by Zero Company, your paid search, social media, and programmatic ad experts.

**Stephen Sakach** (0:17)
We were talking about paddle boarding and doing that in the south where there might be gators. I went out in a kayak once, I saw a couple of whales and I went out there, this is going to be fun, I'm going to go out and paddle board to the whales. Thing is, when you're very low to the surface there and you don't know where the whales are coming up at, you start going, maybe this wasn't a good idea. But thankfully, there were also a couple dolphins tracking with them, so I had a feel for it, but it was unnerving for a stretch until I spotted them come up.

**Liesel Mertes** (0:50)
We were kayaking once in Florida and it was so cool. There were manatees underneath us, really nearby, and so we're feeling the fullness of the experience, and this large manatee actually came up under my husband and son, and I can still see my son was maybe about seven at the time, how wide-eyed, he went maybe four feet up in the air, and then they didn't tip, everyone was fine, but it's seared forever in my memory. So every now and then we'll say, Moses, you remember when you rode that manatee?
I do. So yes, being low to the water can have danger.

**Stephen Sakach** (1:28)
Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. Welcome back to The Bliss Business Podcast, everyone. I'm Stephen Sakach, joined by Mike Liwski, and today we're diving into a topic that has become increasingly urgent for leaders everywhere, or at least it should be, and that's the role of empathy and leadership. So consider this. According to Businessolver State of Workplace Empathy Report, 92% employees say empathy is undervalued, yet 76% of CEOs think the empathy at their workplace is at the right level. There's clearly a gap between what employees need and what leaders and organizations provide, and our guest today is an expert at closing that gap. Mike, introduce our guest today.

**Mike Liwski** (2:13)
I'm super excited for our conversation today, Stephen. So yes, with us today, we're honored to welcome Liesel Mertes. She's the founder of Handle with Care and a nationally recognized advocate for workplace empathy. She's an emotional wellness consultant who equips organizations to support their people through disruption, loss and change. And Liesel's work is rooted as well in her personal experience, which hopefully we'll get a chance to delve into today. After losing her daughter unexpectedly, she realized how unprepared most organizations are to support people through that kind of a crisis. So since then, she's made it her mission to bring empathy into the center of the workplace culture. So Liesel, we are so glad to have you here with us. Welcome to our show.

**Liesel Mertes** (3:08)
Thank you for having me.

**Stephen Sakach** (3:11)
You know, Liesel, most leaders, they want to support their people, I think, but many feel kind of unsure how to respond when someone is facing that personal crisis. And last week we had Justin from breve.io on, and he mentioned most companies have a sort of a random acts of bereavement, I think is how he described it. And why do you think empathy is so often missing from leadership training and development is sort of the missing piece we don't typically see in a lot of companies?

**Liesel Mertes** (3:46)
I think there was a dominant paradigm that it's not like we had some golden age of the empathetic workplace, but it was talked about and expressed this way, you know, keep work is for work and home is for home. And we actually, we don't train or equip leaders. I mean, the seed of the work that I do now was laid when I was in business school, and we'll probably talk more later, but our daughter, Mercy Joan, died. And it was both personally difficult, but also I was reflecting structurally. I mean, two years is a long time to give to an American MBA program. It's a lot of money. And the promise is that you're going to get everything you need to emerge ready to manage and lead people. And so I think there's a lack of awareness that is changing. I get to work now with MBA programs. But what I hear again and again is that people feel overwhelmed and under equipped. And I love Justin and the team at Bereave. We've partnered with them. Definitely a use case is like when someone dies, where they kind of that sweet spot that Bereave exists within. I also like talking more broadly about disruptive life events, which are broader than just putting someone in the ground. And I feel like even as I say that, probably listeners have something that comes to mind. And again, this is another area where so many people feel out of their depth, and they tend to think of empathy and care as a personality trait. That's the other thing that gets in the way. Like maybe Michael is fantastic and Stephen is rubbish at it, but he's so good at selling, so we just give him a pass.