The Psychology of Being a Super Communicator | Charles Duhigg

Charles Duhigg (0:00)

Nobody remembers what you say, they remember how you made them feel.

Michael Gervais (0:03)

Why do so many conversations break down? Even when both people are trying to connect.

Charles Duhigg (0:08)

If you look at the research on communication and you ask people, what did you guys talk about in that hour long conversation you had? People on average won't remember anything specific that was said. But if you ask them, how did you feel throughout that conversation? They'll be able to say, oh, at the beginning, I felt like really good, and then we talked about this one thing, I started feeling really bad about myself.

Michael Gervais (0:25)

Welcome back, or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast, where we dive into the minds of the world's greatest thinkers and doers. I am your host, Dr. Michael Gervais.

Charles Duhigg (0:33)

A high-performance psychologist named Michael Gervais.

Michael Gervais (0:36)

Who Pete Carroll brought in to work with the Seahawks.

Charles Duhigg (0:39)

Famous for his work with Felix Baumgartner when he jumped out of space in the Stratos Project.

SPEAKER_3 (0:43)

Olympic athletes depend on something more than just training and talent. They have to stay mentally tough.

Michael Gervais (0:49)

Today's conversation is with Charles Duhigg, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and bestselling author of The Power of Habit, and Supercommunicators.

Charles Duhigg (0:57)

So it's important is to have the same kind of conversation at the same moment. It's known as the matching principle that when you and I are in the same mindset, as long as we are aligned, then we can move from conversation to conversation together and we feel connected.

Michael Gervais (1:10)

This is Charles, third time on the podcast because the world has shifted since last we spoke.

Charles Duhigg (1:16)

We're at the Thanksgiving table, politics comes up. I'm going to prove to you that I want to understand how you see the world.

Michael Gervais (1:21)

I'm going to say, the rise of AI has quietly eroded. The signals that we previously used to read each other.

Charles Duhigg (1:29)

Now, every email can be really well written. And so these soft skills that we have as humans, the ability to transmit emotions, to be emotionally contagious, to detect insincerity, those are becoming even more valuable now because the practical has gotten easier.

Michael Gervais (1:45)

So with that, let's jump into this week's conversation with Charles Duhigg. Charles, this is the third time, we don't have many people that come on three times to the podcast, and so this is the third time that you're here, and the first time that we've met in person.

Charles Duhigg (2:07)

Yeah, well, it's a huge honor. I feel like I would rather be on this show three times than on Saturday Night Live three times. God, you had that loaded.

Michael Gervais (2:14)

That's not true. Saturday Night Live would be a lot of fun. Well, we've got something to live up to.

Charles Duhigg (2:20)

Exactly, exactly.

Michael Gervais (2:21)

Yeah, cool. You're exceptional as a storyteller, as a writer. I mean, you've had huge success on those fronts. The last time you were here, we talked about your book, which I think is still your newest book, right? So there's no new book that I've missed here, right?

Charles Duhigg (2:35)

Supercommunicators, yeah.

Michael Gervais (2:37)

And when we spoke, I was like, oh, the perfect timing. It was like 2024, Supercommunicators. Okay, let's be great. Let's understand the science, the application of it. What's changed? Your experiences, the world has changed. How are you thinking about Supercommunicating differently?

Charles Duhigg (2:51)

Well, I think one of the things that comes up a lot when I'm talking to people about the book and about how to use the book is there wasn't a chapter on AI because generative AI really didn't exist at that point when I was writing it. And now, of course, we live in a ChatGPT and clawed world. But what's interesting is that I was talking to someone, actually someone at Microsoft the other day, and she was saying that the drawback of generative AI is that it used to be when someone sent you an email and it was really well-written, that was a signal. It was a signal that they had thought about it, that they had spent some time on it, that they're pretty smart.

Now, every email can be really well-written. And as a result, what's happened is that a lot of the signals, not just in emails, but in all kinds of things around language, a lot of the signals are no longer functioning as well as they can, right? We've lost where a fluency and a polish meant something because that fluency and that polish can be artificially manufactured now.