The Psychology of Awareness | Jon Kabat-Zinn

Michael Gervais (0:00)

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Jon Kabat-Zinn (1:05)

If we were to write a diagnosis for humanity on planet Earth, the prognosis would be not good because greed, hatred and delusion are running rampant. It's time for us to actually wake up as a species.

Michael Gervais (1:19)

What if the real crisis we're facing right now is not political or technological or even environmental, but it's a crisis of awareness?

Jon Kabat-Zinn (1:26)

A lot of the time, we're perpetually distracted, and so when we do show up and we are not driven by an agenda, it's kind of contagious.

Michael Gervais (1:35)

Welcome back or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast, where we dive into the minds of the world's greatest thinkers and doers. I'm your host, Dr. Michael Gervais.

SPEAKER_3 (1:44)

A high-performance psychologist named Michael Gervais.

SPEAKER_4 (1:47)

Who head coach Mike McDonald and former head coach Pete Carroll brought in to work with the Seahawks.

SPEAKER_3 (1:51)

Famous for his work with Felix Baumgartner when he jumped out of space in the Stratos Project.

SPEAKER_5 (1:56)

Olympic athletes depend on something more than just training and talent.

SPEAKER_4 (1:59)

They have to stay mentally tough.

Michael Gervais (2:01)

Today's guest is Jon Kabat-Zinn. Molecular biologist, professor emeritus at the University of Massachusetts Medical School, founder of Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction, and a mentor of mine whose way of living I deeply respect. His work has been fundamental in how we understand mindfulness in medicine, psychology, and everyday life.

Jon Kabat-Zinn (2:19)

I've come to see it as a radical act of sanity. To stop and drop into this moment because this is life. This moment is it, and everything else is either over or it's yet to come.

Michael Gervais (2:32)

In this conversation, we explore why mindfulness is not about escaping reality, but waking up to it, and why the skills of being present, connected, and compassionate are essential for the future.

Jon Kabat-Zinn (2:42)

Being engaged rather than just sitting back at a distance is important. If you care about younger generations, then this is a critical moment again. I really do feel like mindfulness and heartfulness has the potential to unify everybody on Planet Earth.

Michael Gervais (2:58)

With that, let's jump into this week's conversation with my friend, Jon Kabat-Zinn.

Jon, I first just want to start, and I would imagine that you don't know how much I think about you. And so I just want to start with a thank you for how much space you've taken up in my life. And even though we don't speak often, just the gift that you've given in your presence and your interest and the way that you show up in the world has made a material difference in my life. So I just want to start with a thank you for that.

Jon Kabat-Zinn (3:39)

I'm speechless, but deeply moved, of course, to hear that. And I feel that resonance that you're referring to, that is kind of one of these very mysterious, beyond time and space kind of resonances where, you know, we don't have to see each other or talk to each other for long stretches of time, but there's a certain kind of way in which I feel like our common interests and intentionality really overlap to a huge degree. I have a lot of confidence in that.

Michael Gervais (4:08)

What you've taught me by being around you and what you've taught me by what you've said to me and what you've said to others in my presence and the writings that you've written and the deep thinking, I've all been material, full stop. But I want to share a story with you before we get into like how you're doing and how you're understanding the world right now.