The Present And Future Of Gene Editing - EP 54 Jennifer Doudna

**Jennifer Doudna** (0:00)
One word that comes to mind when you ask, what gives me confidence? And the word is viruses.

**Ashlee Vance** (0:05)
Okay.

**Jennifer Doudna** (0:05)
Viruses. And the reason is that this is exactly what viruses do. They target specific types of cells in the body, and they don't mess with any others. And they're very good at honing in on those cells. And so when we think of, for example, everybody's probably familiar with COVID-19, of course, and that is a virus that targets the respiratory system. It doesn't target other types of cells for the most part, right? But it's targeting those respiratory cells. And that's because it is looking at a molecule that is uniquely produced on the surface of that type of cell. And that's really how viruses work.

**Ashlee Vance** (1:02)
Welcome to the Core Memory Podcast. This is Ashlee Vance, and we have a special, special, special treat for you today. Jennifer Doudna is in the studio. Jennifer, thank you for coming.

**Jennifer Doudna** (1:16)
Great to be here, Ashlee.

**Ashlee Vance** (1:17)
It's a true honor. I've wanted to talk to you for a very long time. I am sure most of the listeners of this podcast know who you are, but I'm gonna introduce you awkwardly for people who might not. You are a famed biochemist. Clearly, you've got a long distinguished career doing all kinds of work, but I think many, many people know what you did with gene editing around CRISPR and Cas9 technology. You won a Nobel Prize in Chemistry for this work in 2020
You have been anchored at UC Berkeley for quite a while, which is also where you have the Innovative Genomics Institute, which I think is about 10 or 11 years old now?

**Jennifer Doudna** (2:02)
10 It's turned 10

**Ashlee Vance** (2:02)
Okay. We're definitely going to talk about it and the work it does. I mean, I could give a much, much longer introduction, but you're also co-founder of I think at least six companies that I saw. A mix of academia, research, and entrepreneurial stuff these days. Just massive honor to have you here. Thank you so much. I don't know if you know this, but we both went to Pomona College, which is like rare to run into a fellow Sagehen in the wild.

**Jennifer Doudna** (2:36)
Go Sagehen.

**Ashlee Vance** (2:37)
Should we chirp?

**Jennifer Doudna** (2:39)
Chirp.

**Ashlee Vance** (2:40)
Chirp, chirp. I was going to decide if I was going to bear it myself.

**Jennifer Doudna** (2:44)
You don't have to work in 47th somewhere in this conversation.

**Ashlee Vance** (2:46)
Yes. Yeah. It's such a small school. I don't know. I've only ever run into a handful of people who went to Pomona in my professional career. When I was interviewing at The New York Times, I went through this gauntlet of interviews. There must have been like 14 people. Back then, Bill Keller was the editor-in-chief, and that was my last interview. I was like, I was amazing. Finally, I get to use my Pomona College. He went through the whole interview, didn't say a single thing about it. Then I was walking out the door and Jill Abramson, who ran the paper with him. She's like, you know, he went to Pomona, and he was very sarcastic. He was like, you're hired.
That was about it. That's all I've ever been able to do. Pomona tragically just rejected my son from early admissions. So now, I have to launch a multi-part investigation to client and fall.

**Jennifer Doudna** (3:47)
Well, if it's any comfort, my son did not get into Pomona either.

**Ashlee Vance** (3:52)
Oh, wow. They're going hard on this nepo thing or whatever. Yeah, my goodness. Okay. Somehow that makes me feel better. I shamefully admit. I also am going to stop prattling on in a second, just one last story. Right after I finished my Elon book, I wanted to write a book on you.
Yeah, this was like 2015 And I went to my editor. I was like, this Christmas stuff is going to be massive. I think Jennifer is this incredible person. And then I think at that time, because they can look up who has books coming, and you were doing your own book. And it was in the works, I think. And she's like, this is bad because she's going to do her own book. And so then obviously Walter Isaacson ends up doing a book about you. And then he did one about Elon. He just copies whatever I'm thinking like 10 years late. But I know it's an outstanding book. And anyway, I wish I had done it.

**Jennifer Doudna** (4:54)
Well, that's a very kind thought.