The Power of Failure: Transforming Setbacks into Success with Dr. Amy Edmondson

SPEAKER_1 (0:00)

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Michael Gervais (1:17)

What if the way you've been viewing and working with failure has been wrong? What if you could work with failure in a more productive way? Could that be one of the big unlocks for you? Welcome back, or welcome to the Finding Mastery Podcast, where we explore the minds of the world's greatest thinkers and doers. I'm your host, Dr. Michael Gervais, by trade and training a high-performance psychologist. Today's guest is Dr. Amy Edmondson, a Harvard School professor, a global authority on leadership, psychological safety, and the power of failure. And I want to say that phrase again, the power of failure. How about that? Her research has redefined how teams thrive, how innovation happens, and how individuals can unlock their full potential. Now in this episode, we dive into Amy's framework for failure. How understanding the difference between basic, complex, and intelligent failures can reframe our approach to learning and growth. We also explore the tension between perfectionism and ambition, the significance of purpose in navigating setbacks, and why true belonging is built on connection, not approval. So, if you're ready to rethink failure and discover how it can be your greatest teacher, let's jump into this incredible conversation with Dr. Amy Edmondson.

What a treat to be able to sit with you, Amy, and have a conversation about concepts and ideas that I spend a lot of time thinking about. So thank you for your rich work, and thank you for this conversation in advance.

Amy Edmondson (3:03)

I'm looking forward to it.

Michael Gervais (3:06)

So for me, your newest book that you're wrestling down failure and mistakes and really frameworks for going for it and exploring potential as opposed to playing it safe and holding back is a conversation that us helicopter parents or Zamboni parents or those of us who are sheltering mistake making and failure experiencing from our children, I think is highly needed. I don't think you wrote this book though for parents. So who did you write this book for?

Amy Edmondson (3:43)

I think you're right. Well, I wrote this book. I mean, my primary, the audience I have in mind primarily is the managers and executives in large enterprises. And as I dug in, and this is new territory for me, I began to realize I could seed some parenting stories in there and some stories and examples from a life well lived or not well lived.

I mean, different stories from people in their personal life rather than just in their professional or organizational life. So the more I dug into this topic of failing well and failures role in success, the more I began to see it as equally applicable to work and life.

Michael Gervais (4:35)

Yeah, that's so, okay, good. So I share that because I know it's for more of the business world. And I'm hoping that parents and partners can also think about how this stitches into their personal life. Okay, good.

Amy Edmondson (4:50)

I'm convinced they can. I think there's nothing more important for parents than to, you know, neither over protect their children from discomfort and failure, nor to be so lax that anything goes.

Michael Gervais (5:07)

I, in my last book that I wrote, I had a chapter title that I got so much pushback. I got to save it for a different book. But I got so much pushback from editors and folks. And the title was A Case for Broken Bones.