The paths to power: How to grow your influence and advance your career | Jeffrey Pfeffer (author of 7 Rules of Power, professor at Stanford GSB)

**Lenny Rachitsky** (0:00)
We're going to be talking about how to grow your power.

**Jeffrey Pfeffer** (0:02)
The reason why you should pay attention to this is because it leads to a lot of good things. Salary, getting promoted, being happy in your career, being less stressed.

**Lenny Rachitsky** (0:11)
You're not describing how the world should work, it's this is just how it is.

**Jeffrey Pfeffer** (0:15)
Not only is, but how it was and how it will be.

**Lenny Rachitsky** (0:20)
The seven rules of power. Get out of your own way, break the rules, show up in a powerful fashion, create a powerful brand, network relentlessly, use your power, and understand that once you've acquired power, what you did to get there will be forgiven, forgotten, or...

**Jeffrey Pfeffer** (0:31)
This is not about personality. These are skills that can be mastered.

**Lenny Rachitsky** (0:35)
People might be hearing this and they're like, I don't want to be this person.

**Jeffrey Pfeffer** (0:38)
Well, you already have done a fabulous job of illustrating principle one. That is one way to get in our own way.
If I think power is dirty, the first thing that's gonna happen is I'm not gonna do what I need to do to be successful in my career.

**Lenny Rachitsky** (0:52)
The opening quote to your book that I have here, if you want power to be used for good, more good people need to have power.

**Jeffrey Pfeffer** (0:57)
That's exactly right.

**Lenny Rachitsky** (1:03)
Today, my guest is Jeffrey Pfeffer. Jeffrey is a professor of organizational behavior at Stanford's Graduate School of Business and teaches one of the two most popular and oversubscribed courses in all of the MBA program called The Paths to Power. The other class, by the way, is Tetchy Feely, which we dove into last month.
In his class and in his recent book, The Seven Rules of Power, Jeffrey teaches the things that you can do in your life and in your work to build your power. And through that, get things done and advance in your career. As one student described the class, it's the cod liver oil of the Graduate School of Business. You know it's good for you, but you feel a little nervous about it.
In our conversation, we dig into each of the seven powers, why it's important to build these skills, even if you feel uncomfortable. We talk through a bunch of examples of the power in action and the impact it has had on people's lives, why it isn't as cringey or scary as you may think. I was actually nervous to have this conversation and I ended up being a huge fan of Jeffrey and the work that he does. We end the conversation with what you can start doing today to start building your own power. This podcast is basically for anyone that wants to advance in their career, whether you're an IC or a CEO, and I'm really excited to bring it to you. If you enjoy this podcast, don't forget to subscribe and follow it in your favorite podcasting app or YouTube. It's the best way to avoid missing future episodes and it helps the podcast tremendously.
With that, I bring you Jeffrey Pfeffer.
Jeffrey, thank you so much for being here and welcome to the podcast.

**Jeffrey Pfeffer** (2:36)
Thank you, Lenny. I am honored that you invited me on.

**Lenny Rachitsky** (2:40)
I'm even more honored that you decided to come on. We're gonna be talking about something that makes a lot of people uncomfortable.
I think it's gonna make me uncomfortable. We're gonna be talking about how to grow your power in life and in business. Let me just start by asking, why does this stuff make people uncomfortable and why is it still important for people to learn how to do this well?

**Jeffrey Pfeffer** (3:02)
Well, it's important because a guy named Gerald Ferris developed a scale of kind of political skill and he and a bunch of his colleagues over the years did a lot of empirical research that demonstrates that political skill is associated with a lot of positive outcomes. Salary, getting promoted, being happy in your career, being happy in your job, being less stressed. So the reason why you shouldn't pay attention to this is because it leads to a lot of good things.
The reason why it makes people uncomfortable, you said it made you uncomfortable. Maybe I should ask you the question, why does it make you uncomfortable?

**Lenny Rachitsky** (3:44)
There's a lot of things here that are probably not how people wanna live their life necessarily or want other people to act.

**Jeffrey Pfeffer** (3:51)
Yeah, so I think it makes people uncomfortable because the realities of what it takes to get power bear almost no resemblance to what you're taught in Sunday school or the mosque or wherever, how your parents raised you. They bear almost no resemblance to how we think the world ought to be. They bear a little resemblance to our aspirations.