The New Way Of The Superior Man - David Deida (1st interview in a decade) - #1101

**Chris Williamson** (0:00)
What's happening, people? Before we get into the episode, I wanted to give you a disclaimer. David didn't show his face when we were recording. David's a pretty esoteric guy, decided that he's going to retreat from the world. He's living in a house in the middle of nowhere in Florida, I think. And even though it might have been nice to have seen his face, it's completely on brand. So we've tried to make it as engaging as possible. I hope you enjoy the episode.
What is a man of zero?

**David Deida** (0:25)
Well, to me, a man of zero is somebody who has come to the point in their life where their motivation has evaporated or isn't there. They feel they still make me very active. They may be married, they may have children, they may have businesses, they may be creative.
But under it all, there's just a feeling like, why am I doing this? And part of me would rather not do anything kind of feeling. And I noticed a lot of men feeling that, that I was interacting with over the years. And so I wanted to address that.

**Chris Williamson** (1:08)
Is this the next stage after The Superior Man? Is this a spiritual sequel to The Way of The Superior Man?

**David Deida** (1:18)
It's a kind of sequel, but it's not necessarily a stage progression. So somebody might go into the phase, I'll use the word phase, of a man of zero. And then after a month, a year, a decade, whatever, they may come back to being the Superior Man. To me, what a Superior Man is, is a man who is motivated by a deep sense of purpose. And that sense of purpose might be to discover their purpose, but they're motivated by a sense of purpose, often to serve the world, or to give their gift, or to make things right. And when that evaporates, or when they no longer feel that, that's the beginning of the phase of the Man of Zero. Now, it may last a very short time, may last a long time, the Man of Zero phase. So they may eventually go back to, oh, a new purpose.
For instance, for myself, this book emerged out of nowhere as a kind of, oh, I should write this book, I need to write this book. So it just came out of nowhere. And then, you know, the discipline of writing a book, of working with publishers and all of that, that takes effort. So that came up, you know, I was working as kind of a superior man phase for a while. And we'll see if I could get through this interview without resting back.

**Chris Williamson** (2:45)
If you degenerate into total apathy, we'll know that you've gone back into man of zero phase.

**David Deida** (2:50)
It's not exactly apathy. I'm glad you said that. It's a kind of, it's a clarity. It's pure presence. It's pure awareness. It's being absolutely present with the moment, but just not having an urge to push and change things. Like you're deeply content with the way things are. But that doesn't stop you from changing things. It just means you're not stressed. Most men have a kind of kernel of stress in their gut or their heart or their solar plexus that moves them to do something. Well, the man of zero is what happens when that stress isn't there. What are you moved to do? Like how does the universe use you?
How does that deeper thing that's beyond you move through you? Because in the superior man phase, one is motivated mostly by their personal sense of purpose, rather than being used by something much larger, if size even has meaning.

**Chris Williamson** (3:51)
I think it doesn't exactly paint a very flattering picture of where most people's striving comes from.

**David Deida** (4:01)
What doesn't paint a flattering picture?

**Chris Williamson** (4:03)
The fact that when you get to this restful, no longer needing to prove yourself, you notice how much of your ambition and your pushing seems to fall away. What that would suggest is that without some of the drives, needs for validation and recognition, past patterns that are puppeting you, maybe you wouldn't be pushing quite so much.

**David Deida** (4:29)
Definitely, but I don't think that's a negative thing. That's just an evolution, a way of growth. I mean, some of my favorite music, say, was probably created by artists who were doing it so they could get laid.
Sometimes people do something for money, but it's really a work of art. It's really a beautiful thing that they're creating. Some people have a sense of lack of self-worth, let's say, that they inherited from their childhood. Yet, that lack of self-worth motivates them to create real art, real beauty on earth. So, it's not necessarily a negative thing that people are motivated. It's just at some point, I want to do a count for what happens when those motivations are no longer sufficient to move you.