The Need for Speed | 2025 Engineering Benchmarks

**Dan Lines** (0:00)
I wasn't going to answer any questions on this pod, BLP, but I'm going to do it because I love you. And here's what I would say. First of all, go read the report, right? It's there for you. You should know what the standards are, what the benchmarks are. But I think that 2025 is the year of productivity for engineering organizations. So if you're an engineering leader, understand the report, know where you stand against the report. And then for any of the metrics that you want to get better at, use automation, use AI. You got to be into this stuff now to improve.

**Ben Lloyd Pearson** (0:44)
Welcome, everyone, to Dev Interrupted. I'm your host, Ben Lloyd Pearson, and I'm joined today by your other host, Andrew Ziegler. Andrew, how's it going? Like, I just want to check in. Like, how are your New Year's resolutions going? Are you still running every day?

**Andrew Ziegler** (0:58)
Oh, yes, yes. You know, I went out last night, but I still woke up this morning, got my run in. It's still going pretty strong for me. What about you, Ben? How are your resolutions? What were they again? What were yours?

**Ben Lloyd Pearson** (1:10)
Yeah, you know, I don't really do resolutions, except I did resolve myself to not get sick too much this year, and that's already like gone out the window. So like, unfortunately, with all the sickness going around, it's like unavoidable.

**Andrew Ziegler** (1:23)
Oh, yeah. I'm always sick this time of year. It's pretty much unavoidable. So you set yourself up for failure with that one.

**Ben Lloyd Pearson** (1:30)
Yeah, exactly. So, you know, before we get into our interview today, I just want to talk a little bit about some stuff that we're seeing happen in the space and how that relates to some of the stuff that we cover here on Dev Interrupted. So, Andrew, what's in your mind right now? What stories have caught your attention?

**Andrew Ziegler** (1:48)
Yeah, something that has been top of mind for me, especially in the last week, is this new memo from Microsoft about its internal changes, where it's combining its Dev, Div and AI platform teams internally. And they're taking the entire developer division and making it focus on AI, and it's signaling a huge change within Microsoft. And I think this is something that really resonates with large orgs and small ones too, all across software engineering right now, that we recognize there's a lot of change that has to happen, and it has to happen internally with the tools that developers are using. So the most standout quote that was for me from the memo on Monday, was about they needed to compress 30 years of change into three years. So they're trying to move lightning fast and make a whole lot of innovation happen in a whole lot of small amount of time. So the idea of compressing that is quite fascinating to me.

**Ben Lloyd Pearson** (2:44)
That is a very stark claim. Of course, every leader is going to claim wild things when they take over a new organization. But for me, it really resonates with the idea that AI is not going to be this tool that replaces you. If your job is to weave together threads, then the loom will replace you. But the vast majority of people can provide far more value than that. So I feel like really what we should all be focused on is how could we be more productive, more efficient, do better things with AI rather than like, we've got all these LinkedIn influencers out there quoting improperly quoting people like Mark Zuckerberg, which I said I wasn't going to talk about today.

**Andrew Ziegler** (3:26)
But Ben, you got to let it go. You got to let it go, Ben.

**Ben Lloyd Pearson** (3:30)
So, you've got all these influencers saying that AI is going to take your job, and either they're trying to sell you something, or they're probably misinterpreting the words of somebody that's more important than they are. So, I really like this story because I think it is probably more emblematic of what the future of software engineering is going to look like.

**Andrew Ziegler** (3:52)
I totally agree, and I felt like the memo was very positive in that regard, and the idea of realigning developers around the task they need to be focused on, now that they can use these kinds of tools to automate away other ones. And that was really the unlock. They weren't just saying that they needed to move 30 years and three years. They were saying that they could move 30 years and three years. It's an opportunity, and it's an opportunity that involves everybody in the process. So, what about you, Ben? Any items top of mind for you?