The Most Important Date Of The Second World War

Al Murray (0:09)

Achtung! Achtung! Welcome to We Have Ways of Making You Talk with me, Al Murray and James Holland, your second World War podcast of choice, episode 1000 and I don't know. I mean, that thousand episode milestone, James?

James Holland (0:22)

14 14

Al Murray (0:24)

Seems quite a while ago now.

Anyway, thanks for listening, everybody. Thanks for sticking with us into our second millennium. Now, this is a War Waffle episode. Now, for those of you who have joined us recently, what a War Waffle episode normally is, is we talk about kind of what we've been reading or we look at what was going on across the six years of what people call the Second World War. Of course, the window has been thrown far wider open by recent scholarship.

James Holland (0:52)

But, you know, if you're Jonathan L, then you call it the, it's still the Second World War, but it's slightly bigger than six years. What was he, 31 to 49?

Al Murray (1:01)

Thirty-nine, 31 to 49, yeah, exactly.

James Holland (1:04)

Three times longer.

Al Murray (1:06)

Just in case people thought we were running out of stuff to talk about. But we talk about what we've been reading, what we've got in front of us.

James Holland (1:13)

We chew the cud and we have a chat, which is, let's face it, it's where it all began.

Al Murray (1:17)

This is What's On My Desk, a magazine of the life and times of Lesley Thomas and Jock Greer, 18th July, 1919 to 14th December, 1957 He was in 151 Parachute Battalion, so the Indian Parachute Battalion, then became 156 and went to Arnhem and he went to Stalag 11B and afterwards and all this stuff. Which funnily enough, ties in with, I've just been to the Edinburgh Fringe and there was someone there who had found her great-grandfather's war diary, or his diary and had done a little play about Operation Market Garden, which is the 17th of September, Jim, which is when this episode is going out. Now, although I know if you're a regular listener, you're pretty tired of hearing this from, feeling about this for me. So I wanted to actually say, James, that the 17th of September in the Second World War, I think has the most consequential event happen on it, the 17th, but it's not in 1944

It's in 1940 No, it's 1939 It's the Soviets rolling into Poland without declaring war.

James Holland (2:29)

I thought you were going to say the day that Hitler calls off Operation Sea Line.

Al Murray (2:33)

No, no, no, no, no, because there'd be no Operation Sea Line to call off.

Because the non-aggression pact is one thing, right? But the Soviets then actually actively following up on it, and invading Poland.

James Holland (2:47)

Okay, so you're not just saying 1st of September would be dumb of it?

Al Murray (2:50)

No, I'm saying 17th of September.

James Holland (2:53)

I mean, the most consequential day of the whole Second World War is the day it begins.

Al Murray (2:57)

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. The most consequential day is the day when the Soviets, the Soviets, they set their thing in motion that results in Barbarossa. Hitler feels their breathing down his neck, doesn't he?

But by the middle of the night, by the turn of 40 into 41, and this is the start of that process, with the Soviets invading Poland, and then laying out exactly what people have got in store for them. When they show up, they call it co-belligerence. I mean, they're allies, right? The Soviets take the eastern half, and we read a family story the other day. I don't know if it would have been out by the time, which was about a Polish fellow who decided, the Soviets show up and the Soviets say, we're here to liberate. You think, well, we don't fancy your liberation. Thanks very much. So they escape on that great big loop through Iraq and Transjordan and Palestine and back all the way back.

James Holland (3:59)

Yeah.

Al Murray (4:00)

You know.

Yeah. I think this is the day, this 17th September 1939 And he's also, for those who go, well, you know, there's a non-aggression pact, but it's not an alliance. It's the Soviets just trying to stay out of it. Horseshit. They're absolutely up to their necks in it and are an ally of the Germans. No two ways about it. Otherwise, why are you dividing up a country for yourselves and slicing it up?

James Holland (4:27)

Just ask yourself this. Later on in the Blitz, who's providing the fuel for the Luftwaffe? Can I tell you something funny?