The Modern Sex Work Debate - Bonnie Blue & Louise Perry - #997

**Chris Williamson** (0:00)
Louise, why were you interested in sitting down with Bonnie?

**Louise Perry** (0:05)
I find it really interesting. I think that a lot of, just having talked to women about doing this conversation, the response from so many women is, I think, something like morbid curiosity.

**Bonnie Blue** (0:20)
Yeah.

**Louise Perry** (0:20)
Like interested in you, confused by you.

**Bonnie Blue** (0:22)
Yeah.

**Louise Perry** (0:23)
I mean, the main thing that I'm hoping to learn about you today, because I also know about your work, is your psychology, your personality, what it is about you that's led you to do this. Because I get the impression from having watched interviews with you and so on, that actually, over the years, I've interviewed loads and loads of women or spoken to loads and loads of women who've been in the sex industry in various ways, whether that's porn or prostitution or brothels, street walking, whatever.
In every single case, they've talked about distress, trauma or having a horrible time to varying degrees. Yeah. You don't talk about that and I think that you're telling the truth. I think actually you don't find this work causes you psychological harm. Yeah. I guess I want to find out why. I think that's a really interesting question.

**Bonnie Blue** (1:12)
Yeah. I think it's good because everyone always assumes, and even when I say multiple times, I'm not traumatized, I've not had a bad upbringing. Everyone thinks I'm lying and it's really not the case. It's terrible for some people, unfortunately, had a bad upbringing or terrible things have happened. But for me, I've just chosen to do this.

**Chris Williamson** (1:29)
How familiar are you with Louise's work? Do you know what she writes about? Are you familiar with any of the background?

**Bonnie Blue** (1:33)
No, I'm not.

**Chris Williamson** (1:34)
Okay. What's the 30,000 foot view to explain to Bonnie your philosophical underpinnings?

**Louise Perry** (1:42)
I guess I'm coming at this as a conservative.

**Bonnie Blue** (1:44)
Yeah.

**Louise Perry** (1:46)
I wrote a book called The Case Against The Sexual Revolution, I'm generally critical of the sexual revolution and porn. I worked in a rape crisis center before I became a journalist, which I guess is in form my view.

**Bonnie Blue** (1:56)
Sounds very intelligent.

**Louise Perry** (1:57)
Bless you. My general view on the sex industry is very negative. We're going to come at this from different perspectives.
But I'm guessing that a lot of people listening are going to assume that I'm going to try and uncover trauma in you, or I'm going to try and break through the-

**Bonnie Blue** (2:17)
You'd waste your time.

**Louise Perry** (2:19)
I actually think that's right. That's part of the reason I'm more interested in talking to you than I would be to say Lily Phillips.

**Chris Williamson** (2:25)
Yeah.

**Louise Perry** (2:26)
Because I think that Lily, to me and to a lot of people, I think it's clear that Lily is actually suffering quite a lot and is having a hard time.

**Bonnie Blue** (2:32)
She seems traumatized.

**Louise Perry** (2:33)
Right. Which is in a way the less interesting story.

**Chris Williamson** (2:38)
It's more obvious.

**Louise Perry** (2:39)
Yeah.

**Bonnie Blue** (2:40)
It is horrible. I'm very lucky and fortunate to be in the position I'm in, because I'm not traumatized, I'm not upset, I'm not distressed. But I think for a lot of people and especially a lot of sex workers, they're completely out of their comfort zone, or they're doing things for money and views, or unfortunately, they've had a bad upbringing, which has led them to be a sex worker. It is terrible and it is horrible. It's not always the nicest of industries for most people.

**Chris Williamson** (3:05)
Would you advise Lily to stop?

**Bonnie Blue** (3:10)
Yeah, I think if you're going to keep crying and upset and it's destroying your family, there's some things which are a lot more valuable than money and views. The biggest thing in life, and it's so simple, is to be happy. And if you're not happy, why do something? Because yes, you could be driving fancy cars and you could wear flashy clothes, but if you're not happy, what is it all for? Like, as long as each day I'm waking up happy and I'm going to sleep happy, I'll be proud of myself. Other people might be disgusted in me and I accept that, but for me, as long as I'm happy, then that's okay.

**Louise Perry** (3:45)
What bit of it makes you happy of what you do?

**Bonnie Blue** (3:48)
It's a mixture. There's not one thing. It's not like, oh, it's the orgasm. Oh, it's the money. It's the views.