The Man Who Wrote The Book On AI: 2030 Might Be The Point Of No Return! We've Been Lied To About AI!

Steven Bartlett (0:00)

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Stuart Russell (1:19)

Because unless we figure out how do we guarantee that the AI systems are safe, we're toast.

Steven Bartlett (1:25)

And you've been so influential on the subject of AI, you wrote the textbook that many of the CEOs who are building some of the AI companies now would have studied on the subject of AI.

Stuart Russell (1:34)

Yeah.

Steven Bartlett (1:34)

So do you have any regrets?

SPEAKER_3 (1:39)

Professor Stuart Russell has been named one of Time Magazine's most influential voices in AI.

SPEAKER_4 (1:44)

After spending over 50 years researching, teaching and finding ways to design AI in such a way that humans maintain control.

Steven Bartlett (1:51)

You talk about this gorilla problem as a way to understand AI in the context of humans.

Stuart Russell (1:56)

Yeah. So a few million years ago, the human line branched off from the gorilla line in evolution. And now the gorillas have no say in whether they continue to exist because we are much smarter than they are.

Steven Bartlett (2:05)

So intelligence is actually the single most important factor to control planet Earth. But we're in the process of making something more intelligent than us.

Stuart Russell (2:12)

Exactly.

Steven Bartlett (2:13)

Why don't people stop then?

Stuart Russell (2:14)

Well, one of the reasons is something called the Midas Touch. So King Midas is this legendary king who asked the gods, can everything I touch turn to gold? And we think of the Midas Touch as being a good thing, but he goes to drink some water, the water has turned to gold, and he goes to comfort his daughter, his daughter turns to gold, so he dies in misery and starvation. So this applies to our current situation in two ways. One is that greed is driving these companies to pursue technology with the probabilities of extinction being worse than playing Russian roulette. And that's even according to the people developing the technology without our permission. And people are just fooling themselves if they think it's naturally going to be controllable. So, you know, after 50 years, I could retire, but instead, I'm working 80 or 100 hours a week trying to move things in the right direction.

Steven Bartlett (2:58)

So if you had a button in front of you, which would stop all progress in artificial intelligence, would you press it?

Stuart Russell (3:05)

Not yet. I think there's still a decent chance that guarantees safety. And I can explain more of what that is.

Steven Bartlett (3:14)

Just give me 30 seconds of your time. Two things I wanted to say. The first thing is a huge thank you for listening and tuning into the show week after week. It means the world to all of us. And this really is a dream that we absolutely never had and couldn't have imagined getting to this place. But secondly, it's a dream where we feel like we're only just getting started. And if you enjoy what we do here, please join the 24% of people that listen to this podcast regularly and follow us on this app. Here's a promise I'm going to make to you. I'm going to do everything in my power to make this show as good as I can now and into the future. We're going to deliver the guests that you want me to speak to and we're going to continue to keep doing all of the things you love about this show.