The Man Who Built the Apple Store Never Tried to Sell You Anything

Ron Johnson (0:03)

Turn back the clock to 2000 Apple was a 25-year-old company that had largely been defeated. Now, they invented the personal computer. Steve came back in 97

Apple had 5% market share. Microsoft had 95 Now, if he translated that to a baseball game, they were behind 19 to 1

Jason Moser (0:36)

That was Ron Johnson, creator of the Apple Store and author of Shop Different, on why the world's most powerful retail brand never tries to sell you anything. I'm Motley Fool analyst Jason Moser.

Ron spent years working directly alongside Steve Jobs to build the Apple Store from the ground up. And his new book reveals what that experience taught him about retail, leadership, and what makes customers stay genuinely loyal for life. In this conversation, Ron and I talked about the inside story of Apple's retail gamble, why he thinks new Apple CEO John Turnus doesn't need to be in a hurry, and what his very public stumble at JCPenney taught him that no amount of success ever could. We hope you enjoy.

Welcome to Motley Fool Conversations, I'm Jason Moser, and today I am excited to welcome the creator of the Apple Store, Mr. Ron Johnson. Prior to Apple, Ron was a merchant leader at Target, and post Apple, he served as the CEO of JCPenney, and he's also an author. His new book, Shop Different, How Retail Revealed Apple's Genius, is out now and available wherever you get your books. Ron, welcome to the show.

Ron Johnson (1:50)

Well, Jason, thanks for having me on. It's great to be with you.

Jason Moser (1:53)

It's a big thrill to meet you here, and I'm just looking forward to the conversation.

I think I just want to get started here. Your career is unique. It covers such a broad cross-section of the overall retail environment. So I guess I'd like to start at the beginning. Talk about your time at Target. What was it that drew you to that opportunity?

Ron Johnson (2:13)

Well, I was in business school. I went to Harvard Business School, but I'd grown up in a suburb of Minneapolis, where Target was founded. Yeah, where Dayton-Hudson was based. And I loved being in stores. And so when I was graduating from business school, I had offers like a lot of the kids did to go into investment banking, like a Goldman or a Salomon, both offered me jobs.

But I kind of wanted to do something I might love for a lifetime. And I didn't think it was banking. And so I picked retail.

I love being in stores. And so I went to work with a subsidiary at the time of Dayton-Hudson, which got renamed Target as most of your people now, called Mervins on the West Coast. And I started after business school, I got to unload trucks, which was really fun. I could do it really fast. I could get a big trailer guy in about 45 minutes on a good day and filled on the floor and in the stock room. And then they let me work on the cash rep and straighten clothes.

But eventually I ended up at Target at about age 30 It was a great time to be there, it was about 1990

And that's when the discount wars were at their peak. You know, the US had about 10 to 12 discount stores, one for every region it's aimed. But it was clear it was going to come down to Walmart and Target and Target was the higher price suburban differentiator. And Walmart was the low cost rural operator. But they were now moving into the suburbs and it was a great battle. And so I kind of cut my teeth in retail, really as a merchant at Target. And that was a big part of what I did.

Jason Moser (3:56)

Okay, so now we're getting to a seminal moment in your life. And that of Apple's, I might say as well. You go to Apple. Now, how did that unfold? I mean, going to such an important and amazing business. And even at that time, maybe it wasn't quite where it is today.

Still a big move. How did that unfold?

Ron Johnson (4:15)

Well, it was actually pretty contrived, but no one thought it was a good idea for me to go there. Because if you go, turn back the clock to 2000 Okay, this is when I went to Apple in 1999, late 99 Apple was a 25-year-old company that had largely been defeated. You know, they invented the personal computer. Steve came back in 97

Apple had 5% market share. Microsoft had 95

Now, if he translated that to a baseball game, they were behind 19 to 1