The Laws Of Human Nature - Robert Greene - #078

**Chris Williamson** (0:00)
Hello, podcast people. I hope you are strapped in and ready for today's episode because it is an absolute belter. My guest today is none other than New York Times bestselling author and all-round fascinating person, Robert Greene. Feel incredibly fortunate to have Robert on the podcast discussing his new book. Many of you may know Robert from The 48 Laws Of Power, but his most recent publication, which is The Laws Of Human Nature, he says is the culmination of everything he's learned over the last 20 years. So I guess you could take that as an indication that it's a good idea to listen to what he's got to say today. I wanted to give a special thank you to Abby Carver, who is the fan of the show and also mutual friend of mine and Robert's. And she's the reason that I've managed to get Robert on. I can't thank her enough for sorting this out. I feel very fortunate to get to sit down with him today. If you too have a New York Times best selling author just sitting in your phone book waiting to come on a podcast with me, then please feel free to link us up. But in all seriousness, I am always on the lookout for new guests and interesting people pop up in the unlikeliest of circumstances. So if you do have a suggestion for someone that you'd love to hear me sit down with, then find them over at ChrisWillExx on all social media as per usual. But for now, please welcome Robert Greene.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. I am joined by Robert Greene. I'm sure he needs no introduction, but Robert, thank you very much for coming on. I can't wait to sit down and talk with you today.

**Robert Greene** (1:50)
My pleasure, Chris. Thanks for inviting me.

**Chris Williamson** (1:53)
So I have a very lovely story to tell you actually about one of the guys behind the Modern Wisdom project, a guy called Jordan, who said that your book, 48 Laws Of Power, was the sole reason that he studied history at university. Apparently somehow Tesco, big supermarket in the UK, randomly had it on a shelf. He picked it up at the age of 13 And that was the reason he studied history at the age of 18 So congratulations.

**Robert Greene** (2:19)
Thank you. I've heard such stories before, but that's always nice to hear. Thanks.

**Chris Williamson** (2:23)
Yeah, it must feel very, I guess, scary to think when you reflect on stuff like that and realize the sort of impact that your work has on people.

**Robert Greene** (2:35)
Well, if I can get people to read, what more can I ask? My view of history is that it's not something that should be thought of as boring, as something that's just buried in the past, has no relevance to today. I want to make history come to life, so when you're reading about Julius Caesar, you can feel what he felt like when he was on the battlefield, when he decided to cross the Rubicon and Pompeii. So I try to make history come to life. And if readers feel that way, if they feel inspired to study, God, that's the greatest compliment I could receive.

**Chris Williamson** (3:13)
Well, I think you've definitely been paid that by Jordan. So 48 Laws Of Power, I'm a massive fan of, but we're talking about the laws of human nature today, which is your new book as of October last year.

**Robert Greene** (3:27)
That's correct.

**Chris Williamson** (3:28)
Fantastic. So the first question I want to ask was, how does this book relate to your past work? 48 Laws Of Power, Art Seduction, et cetera, et cetera.

**Robert Greene** (3:39)
Well, I kind of see it as the culmination, sort of the distillation of all that I've learned over, excuse me, over 20 years of writing books and doing a lot of consulting work and just sort of observing people. And I wrote a book prior to this called Mastery. And I had a chapter in Mastery about social intelligence. And the idea is that you could be absolutely brilliant in your field. You could know all the technical things you need to know. But if you're really bad with people, you'll completely neutralize all of your brilliance. You can even be a genius. If you don't know how to work with people, if you irritate and alienate them, then you're going to have a life of misery and pain. And I wrote that chapter. This is one element of becoming a master in your field is being able to work with people. And readers really responded to that. And they said, you know, Robert, I really like that chapter, but I need more. Can you give me more? I felt like, you know, this is an area where people really need help. You know, I needed help when I was just starting out in the work world and this kind of knowledge. You know, we live in a world where people are increasingly self-absorbed. They're just lost in their smartphones, whatever. They're not paying attention to people. They're not interacting as much as we used to interact with people. And so we're losing some basic social skills, the ability to judge people and see their character and not just simply be taken in by their appearances.