The importance of Russell Brand’s rape conviction

SPEAKER_1 (0:00)

The Hard Shoulder, with Ciara Kelly and Shane Colman, on Newstalk, with Ciara.

Ciara Kelly (0:09)

Now, following yesterday's landmark conviction of former comedian Russell Brand, on one count of rape and three counts of sexual assault, I'm joined now by Femi Otioju, former chair of Women's Aid. And I should remind listeners that there may be some distressing content to follow.

Good evening to you, Femi. I suppose, firstly, your reaction to Brand's conviction.

Femi Otioju (0:33)

Good evening. Thank you for inviting me. Yes, I'm very, very pleased at the conviction of Russell Brand, but mostly not because of him personally, but because of the message that it gives to women who've been on the receiving end of this kind of treatment previously.

Ciara Kelly (0:49)

And just in terms of Russell Brand strikes me as somebody who was telling people who he was from the outset really of his career. Why did no one believe him?

Femi Otioju (1:02)

I think that people believed what he was, which is that he was promiscuous and that he would sleep with as many women as he could. He never at any point said, and I will take no notice of what those women actually want, and I will force them to have sex even if they tell me that they don't. That's an entirely different thing.

Ciara Kelly (1:21)

Okay.

I quite liked the line that I saw from JK. Rowling earlier, though, today where she said, it's always those you suspect the most. And I thought that was very apt. Even if that's the case, that he wasn't perhaps saying, you know, I don't take no for an answer. How do you think he managed to, I suppose, get away with the kind of behaviour he's clearly been engaged in for so long?

Femi Otioju (1:49)

I think men get away with this sort of thing, and he in particular, because fame and power often give people a sense of impunity, which is then afforded to them by the people around them. What he does is important to the organisations with him. He works, people's individual career prospects might be affected by trying to challenge him publicly or privately. And so all of those things align to make it very difficult for him to be called out by anyone who's perhaps not in a similar position.

Ciara Kelly (2:19)

Okay. And Femi, therefore, how difficult would it have been for his victims to come forward? Russell Brand is famous. Russell Brand has been in television, film. He has a popular YouTube channel, all of these things.

How much more difficult is it to come forward as a victim of somebody like Brand, who has that sort of power and protection within his life?

Femi Otioju (2:48)

Extremely difficult. And not only does he have the power and protection of others, but he has this comedic approach to the way in which he presents himself, which makes it difficult for people to believe that he really means it. And if you add that to the fact that a lot of his victims were a lot younger, or were in very junior positions, or were not protected by the organizations that they worked for, that makes it almost impossible, particularly, as I say, for young women, which is why we're hearing now like close the consent gap. So we recognize that it isn't just enough to say the woman said yes at the time. Was she able to say yes? Did she think notice would be taken of her? All of those things are important too.

Ciara Kelly (3:29)

Are things improving in terms of how courts view this, in terms of the stigma or the difficulties in coming forward? We do know that more and more people are reporting things like sexual assault, but we also know that that may indicate an increase in sexual assault as well as it may increase an increase ability to talk about it.

Femi Otioju (3:55)

Things are improving. There are more services for women who are supporting one another. More police forces are making an effort to respond more appropriately, but we still need more movement. We need, for example, schools and colleges to teach about consent and respect and healthy relationships. We're moving in the right direction, but there's a lot more.

For example, employers, broadcasters, we've heard about the entertainment industry, but there are lots of other areas where we need powerful men to be called out and held to account.

Ciara Kelly (4:30)

Yeah. Do you think that certain organizations like perhaps the BBC, like perhaps Channel 4 have questions to answer around all of this, about how they treated brand and indeed, I suppose, the culture in those workplaces?