The high-growth handbook: Molly Graham’s frameworks for leading through chaos, change, and scale

**Lenny Rachitsky** (0:00)
You've worked with many very high-performing founder CEOs, Zuck, Sheryl Sandberg, Larry and Sergey, Google, Bret Taylor.

**Molly Graham** (0:07)
Google, when I was there, felt like two PhD students' paradise. Facebook felt like 19-year-old hacker's dorm room. 80% of the culture of a company is literally defined by the personality of the founder. Our job as operators or as leaders is to help articulate the culture that they're creating.

**Lenny Rachitsky** (0:24)
When a lot of people think Molly Graham, a lot of people think of giving away your Legos.

**Molly Graham** (0:28)
You have to grow as fast as your company is growing if you really want to take advantage. Both learning to give away what you've gotten good at, and move on to the next shiny pile of Legos.

**Lenny Rachitsky** (0:39)
Sara Caldwell, she told me that the framework that helped her most in her career is something that you call the J-curve versus stairs.

**Molly Graham** (0:46)
Chamath, when he pitched me on this job, actually drew me a picture on a whiteboard. He said, the way a lot of people do careers is a set of stairs. Just walk up the stairs and you'll get promoted every two years, but that is boring. The much more fun careers are like jumping off cliffs. You do fall, but then you climb out way beyond where the stairs could ever get you.

**Lenny Rachitsky** (1:07)
Today, my guest is Molly Graham. Molly was an early employee at Google, also at Facebook, where she worked closely with Zuck on building the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative. She also worked with Bret Taylor on Scalingquip, which she sold to Salesforce. She's also worked with hundreds of companies and founders helping them grow into the leaders that they want to become. Today, she leads Glue Club, which is a community for leaders operating in changing, growing environments who want to develop themselves as quickly as their companies. Molly is maybe most known for her advice to give away your Legos, which we chat about, along with basically all of her favorite frameworks and mindsets and pieces of advice that she's developed and collected over time for leaders who are going through rapid scale and growth and are just struggling to keep up. I think of this episode as a high growth handbook. For leaders who are experiencing rapid scale, we cover the J-Curves vs Stairs approach to career growth, the Waterline model and why you want to snorkel before you scuba, her six rules for creating goals and building alignment, her rules of thumb for dealing with rapid scale and lots of change, the biggest lessons she's learned from Zuck and Sergey and Larry and Sheryl and Bret Taylor and so much more. Molly is incredible and you will be a better leader after listening to this episode. A huge thank you to Eric Antonow, Ashley Murphy and Sara Caldwell for suggesting topics and questions for this conversation. If you enjoy this podcast, don't forget to subscribe and follow it in your favorite podcasting app or YouTube. It helps tremendously. And if you become an annual subscriber of my newsletter, you get 19 incredible products for free for an entire year including Lovable, Replit, Bold, Gamma, N8N, Linear, Devon, Post Talk, Superhuman, Descript, Whisper Flow, Perplexity, Warp, Granola, Magic Patterns, Raycast, ChappieRD, Mobin and Stripe Atlas. Head on over to lennysnewsletter.com and click Product Pass. With that, I bring you Molly Graham after a short word from our sponsors. Today's episode is brought to you by DX, the developer intelligence platform designed by leading researchers. To thrive in the AI era, organizations need to adapt quickly. But many organization leaders struggle to answer pressing questions like, Which tools are working? How are they being used? What's actually driving value? DX provides the data and insights that leaders need to navigate this shift. With DX, companies like Dropbox, booking.com, Adyen and Intercom get a deep understanding of how AI is providing value to their developers and what impact AI is having on engineering productivity. To learn more, visit DX's website at getdx.com/lenny. That's getdx.com/lenny.
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