The Harsh Price Of Extreme Performance - Cameron Hanes - #940

**Chris Williamson** (0:00)
I can't believe it's been two years. I can't believe it was two years since I was with you.

**Cameron Hanes** (0:04)
I know. We got a lot of good material out of that discussion, that time, that day. I still see clips everywhere.

**Chris Williamson** (0:12)
Did anything stick with you from the few days that we spent together?

**Cameron Hanes** (0:17)
I like, you've kind of repurposed some stuff. I love seeing that, but I think just that footage going up the mountain with the rock and you talking about chosen and unchosen suffering, that's going to last forever for me. I mean, it's such a good point, and just that setting to have that message delivered at that time was just so powerful.

**Chris Williamson** (0:45)
Yeah, I really appreciate how complimentary you were about me in the book. It feels like most of the first chapter is some bullshit that I've stolen or said well. Well, look, if we need to take a 72-pound rock up a hill, you carrying the rock and me spouting nonsense, that feels like we're specializing in where our skill sets lie. You know what I mean?

**Cameron Hanes** (1:08)
Yeah, I see. Yeah, but you carried the rock. Also, what did we do, 11 miles?

**Chris Williamson** (1:14)
Too much, too many.

**Cameron Hanes** (1:14)
Yeah.

**Chris Williamson** (1:15)
At least 10, too many. Yeah. So, that was it. I mean, that's the furthest I've run maybe ever was that with you, and that was trail running and.

**Cameron Hanes** (1:23)
Yeah, it was great.

**Chris Williamson** (1:24)
I actually felt great the next day. Sometimes, I mean, you'll know this, or maybe you won't because you're always running, but the non-runners will know this. You've always got one body part if you've taken a big break from running and you're not conditioned. There's one body part that always hurts like fucking for me, it's my ankles and my calves. Okay. Just it is always on fire. Maybe it's because we were trail running, maybe it's because the pace was right, maybe whatever. But I felt fine the next day. What I was concerned about was whether or not you would have wrecked me so much physically on day one, that when it came to my bit, which was the sit down and spout nonsense stuff, that I would be sat there like, it's so much fucking pain. I can't even focus.

**Cameron Hanes** (2:04)
You're great. Yeah. I'm thankful we were able to go out to where I grew up, and I could share that part with you too. Because I just wanted, and I've heard you mention on a few of your podcasts, you've mentioned the poser on the rock, and the gym, and the stuff that I do, and reference to that lifestyle or how I grew up. Because I wanted to share with you because it's so much different than, well, in some ways different, but in some ways I felt alone too, just like you did. But I think when people, they hear little nuggets from somebody else, and then they always latch on to whatever they can identify with. So there's a few things that you mentioned that really resonated with me, but I was just thankful to share everything, my little slice of the world with you, and it was awesome.

**Chris Williamson** (2:53)
Eugene, Oregon's a fun, cool place. I loved it. There is a lot of differences growing up in the northeast of the UK, growing up in Oregon. But I think the principles end up being the same. This sort of question about what do I deserve from life.

**Cameron Hanes** (3:12)
That was a great analogy. Maybe it's in the book also, but that Puritan work ethic, we talked about where you're supposed to work. And I think you mentioned, but the work, I can't remember how you told the story, but was it about the priests that used to work out in the sun?

**Chris Williamson** (3:33)
In the fields, yeah, yeah, yeah. So this belief that suffering was in service to God, right, that they're hoeing the fields and the sun's beating down on their back. And this is kind of the same as like whipping yourself to the actual suffering itself was a tribute. And in some ways it's noble because you're building up your resilience to difficult things, but in other ways it's fucking pointless because the suffering is not in service of a thing. Now, obviously, if you're theologically minded, then you're like, yeah, the tribute is there. But yeah, I think even though very different places, a lot of similarities, I was very surprised with that. And then probably in retrospect totally shouldn't have been. Working class, you know, limited opportunity towns probably end up producing similar sorts of mindsets.