The Gottman Doctors: Affairs Can Actually Save Your Relationship! But If You See This, It's Time To Walk Away!

Julie Gottman (0:00)

When the sex falls away, it can become a serious problem.

John Gottman (0:03)

And the largest study done on the quality of sex with 70,000 people in 24 countries found the differences between people who say they have a great sex life or have an awful sex life has to do with it.

Steven Bartlett (0:14)

Really?

Julie Gottman (0:15)

That's right. Doctors John and Julie Gottman are world-renowned psychologists and researchers who have studied over 40,000 couples, written over 50 books, and helped millions of people find and stay in love for over 50 years. People don't know how to have good relationships.

Steven Bartlett (0:30)

So I've got so many questions. I'll start from the top. What are we getting wrong?

Julie Gottman (0:34)

Well, first of all, most people are living under the myth that you have to be compatible with a partner, which is absolutely wrong.

John Gottman (0:42)

And this is really interesting. There's a t-shirt study where women smell t-shirts that have been worn by men for at least two days and selected the ones they thought smelled the best. And they found that they were selecting the men that were most divergent from them genetically, rather than people who were like them. Because we're not really turned on by our clone.

Julie Gottman (1:00)

And there isn't a one. Looking for the one is a big mistake.

Steven Bartlett (1:04)

What about, how do I become the most attractive version of me if I'm looking for a partner?

John Gottman (1:08)

Yeah, that's a great question.

Julie Gottman (1:09)

And this is what you do.

Steven Bartlett (1:11)

This is a difficult question to ask, but have you ever seen cheating help a relationship?

Julie Gottman (1:16)

Oh, very, very often.

Steven Bartlett (1:17)

Really?

Julie Gottman (1:18)

When there's recovery.

Steven Bartlett (1:19)

But can it be treated?

Julie Gottman (1:21)

75% so far in our research.

Steven Bartlett (1:24)

How?

Julie Gottman (1:25)

We developed a model, and here's what it involves first.

Steven Bartlett (1:36)

John, Julie, why do you both do what you do?

Julie Gottman (1:43)

I love that question. One has to define what we do, and there are many things that we do. First of all, I love to write. That's great. I've been helping people since I was eight years old, for some odd reason.

And I love, love, love connecting with people and loving them through their pain. That's why I do what I do.

Steven Bartlett (2:08)

And would you class yourself as a clinical psychologist? Is that your official title?

Julie Gottman (2:12)

Yes.

Steven Bartlett (2:13)

Okay. John, could you answer the same question, which is why do you do what you do? And I guess what do you do?

John Gottman (2:18)

Well, to me, it's really an interesting puzzle to try to understand what makes relationships work and what makes groups work, what makes people be cooperative versus competitive, selfish, and mean, what makes them be altruistic and empathetic, what makes relationships become sources of longevity and health versus illness and loneliness and despair. So for me, it's a puzzle. And it's fun to work on a puzzle.

Steven Bartlett (2:54)

And what do you do?

John Gottman (2:56)

I measure things accurately and reliably. And then really just kind of see where the data fall out. So it's really applying statistics and measurement and good math to try to understand processes that are going on between people. With this really ultimate question of what makes relationships work and what makes groups work, what makes humans cooperative and magnificent at their best versus selfish, greedy and functioning at their worst. So it's curiosity that drives me. That's all.

Steven Bartlett (3:39)

And collectively, how many people do you think you've studied, researched, treated, worked with in your practice over the last however many decades?

John Gottman (3:51)

Well, we've done research on 40,000 couples about to start couple therapy using questionnaires and then more intensely using physiology and objective rating of emotional behavior, about 3,000 couples followed over time as long as 20 years.

Steven Bartlett (4:10)

And how many books have you collectively written, Julie?

Julie Gottman (4:14)

I think we're on 51 But I'm not sure. I've lost count.

Steven Bartlett (4:22)

Where I wanted to start with this conversation is really with, I guess, the subject of relationships, but how we find and form them in the modern society. Because when you look at the stats, despite the incredible work you've done over the last couple of decades, it doesn't seem that we're better at finding and keeping relationships than ever before. Especially if you look at non-romantic relationships, loneliness and isolation are absolute all-time highs. And the technology that was invented over the last couple of decades came with a promise, which was that it was going to connect us. But it doesn't seem to have succeeded. So I really want to start by answering this question about how people find love and form those relationships in the modern world. And what the data says and what our psychology says about where we're going wrong. I had some independent research that I found that says according to the US Census Bureau, nearly 50% of the US population are currently single. According to the 2023 survey by Pew Research, about 33% of men reported being single, followed by 28% of women. The average first marriage for men is 30 years old, for women it's about 28 We're having less sex ever before. We're getting in relationships later than ever before. Marriages still seem to break down, almost half of them. You probably know those numbers better than me.