The Gilded Presidency of Donald Trump with NYT Reporter Maggie Haberman (‘Regime Change’)

**Michelle Obama** (0:00)
As Americans, we're constantly grappling with a fundamental question. Do we settle for the world as it is, or do we strive to create the world as it should be? Our answers tend to ebb and flow through the decades. But once, just after a war that nearly tore us apart, we came as close as we've come to answering it. And it's a story worth a closer look.
I'm Michelle Obama, and I'm proud to announce Higher Ground's new podcast, Reconstruction, The Unfinished Promise.
Guided by bestselling author Malcolm Gladwell and featuring my husband Barack Obama, this limited series uncovers the untold stories of Reconstruction, what they mean for us today, and how our past can shape the future we choose to build. Reconstruction, The Unfinished Promise, is available now on Audible or wherever you get your podcasts.

**Maggie Haberman** (1:00)
Attila the Hun, the Caesars, Tamerlane, Alexander the Great, Napoleon, Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Genghis Khan. I think I'm missing someone, but Trump called them the top 10 to us.

**Sam Fragoso** (1:13)
The top 10 of the most powerful figures.

**Maggie Haberman** (1:15)
Correct. The premise of this document was that while they had power, Trump has more. Trump has more because he is in charge of the US military, and because he has reach that they did not for a variety of reasons, and that he is willing to use it.

**Sam Fragoso** (1:34)
This is Talk Easy. I'm Sam Fragoso.
Welcome to the show.
Maggie Haberman is a White House correspondent for The New York Times, who's been covering Donald Trump dating back to her New York tabloid days. First at the Post, then the Daily News, where Trump was a permanent fixture. Quote, I was shaped by understanding what's sold in a tabloid, he was shaped by how to attract those stories. And so come election night 2016, I'm sure you remember this, when it became clear that Donald Trump and not Hillary Clinton was going to be our 45th president, colleagues at the Times enlisted Haberman to give, I think what they called a Trump 101 briefing. In the aftermath of her crash course, a reporter on the Times team sent her a congratulatory note. This is great for you, they wrote. Haberman quickly texted back, you have no idea what is coming.
What could be anticipated though, was Trump's unending obsession with the press. And in that regard, Haberman and by extension, the New York Times, which Trump has alternately called fake news, failing and his hometown paper, continues to have an outsized place in the president's consciousness. There may be no reporter Trump respects and fears more than Haberman, says columnist Dylan Byers. Her extraordinary level of access in and around the Oval Office has resulted in not one, but two New York Times bestsellers. Confidence Man, The Making of Donald Trump and Breaking of America, and most recently, Regime Change Inside the Imperial Presidency of Donald Trump. The new book, co-written with Times colleague Jonathan Swan, chronicles the first year in Trump's second presidency, which would be a little bit premature if not for how unprecedented these first 18 months have been. And so today, on the A side, Haberman explains the challenges of covering a White House that outpaces the institutions designed to keep it accountable. She also talks about Stephen Miller's enormous influence in Term 2, the administration's handling of the Epstein files, tariffs, and of course the ongoing wars in both Iran and Ukraine. On the B side, we tell some of Maggie's story. Growing up in New York as the daughter of a newspaperman, becoming a reporter in the late 90s, the critique she's received as a quote unquote access journalist, and the way her career is inextricably linked with the rise of Donald Trump, a man and now two-time president that she has spent the better part of three decades trying to understand. Before we get into it, if you've been enjoying Talk Easy, you can subscribe here on YouTube or follow the show wherever you get your podcasts. It all helps our team continue making these episodes and ensures that new ones can reach you each and every Sunday. Now, here's the conversation.
Maggie Haberman, thank you for being here.

**Maggie Haberman** (4:45)
Thanks for having me, Sam. I'm excited to be here.

**Sam Fragoso** (4:48)
Did you celebrate 250?

**Maggie Haberman** (4:51)
I had to go down to DC on July 4th for two and a half hours to meet a source and make sure that one of my passes was still working, because I hadn't been to the specific building that I needed to get into in a while. That was my epic relaxation.

**Sam Fragoso** (5:12)
You had an excuse for working, is really what you're saying.