The Gaslighting & Conversation Expert: This Is A Sign You’ll Divorce in 10 Years!

Steven Bartlett (0:00)

What are the five most important things for anyone who's striving to be a masterful communicator to get what they want out of life?

Jefferson Fisher (0:07)

The first is authenticity. Presence is the highest form of authenticity.

Steven Bartlett (0:12)

Okay, on that point, I'm going to play this video on the screen that went viral of Miley Cyrus and Naomi Campbell.

Jefferson Fisher (0:16)

I haven't seen this. That's painful to watch. Number two, reduce the amount of distraction. Three, stop over explaining. Number four, know how to deal with their sadness. And I'll go through all of these in detail. But number five is, you have to know how to handle the narcissist and the gaslighter.

SPEAKER_3 (0:36)

What do I do?

Jefferson Fisher (0:36)

Let me show you. First, you need to... Yeah, for a lot of people, that kind of blows their mind.

SPEAKER_4 (0:43)

Jefferson Fisher is back, and the board-certified trial lawyer is using his expertise in conflict resolution and communication.

SPEAKER_3 (0:49)

To teach couples, friends, employees, and everyone in between how to master difficult conversations.

Jefferson Fisher (0:55)

Here's the truth, you have to invest in your communication.

If I don't say what needs to be said at work, I'll lose that promotion. Same thing in relationships. Most relationships don't fall apart because they fell out of love. They fell out of communication. Because of a hundred moments where repair could have happened, and it didn't, because you said, this is so stupid, this is so small. Like, there's a recent study showing that the biggest predictor of the child's well-being within the parental relationship is not whether they were married or divorced, it was how they deal with conflict. But people are definitely afraid of the conflict that they're in, because they don't know what to say.

And so I want to help them feel controlled enough, feel confident in this. And it's knowing things like being right is overrated. If I respond first with frustration, I'm going to lose every time. Or if you want to know how to handle the insults, the patronising, the dismissive, the first thing you have to do is...

Steven Bartlett (1:43)

That's the mistake I've made multiple times. Just give me 30 seconds of your time. Two things I wanted to say. The first thing is a huge thank you for listening and tuning in to the show week after week. Week means the world to all of us and this really is a dream that we absolutely never had and couldn't have imagined getting to this place. But secondly, it's a dream where we feel like we're only just getting started. And if you enjoy what we do here, please join the 24% of people that listen to this podcast regularly and follow us on this app. Here's a promise I'm going to make to you. I'm going to do everything in my power to make this show as good as I can now and into the future. We're going to deliver the guests that you want me to speak to and we're going to continue to keep doing all of the things you love about this show. Thank you.

Jefferson Fisher, what do you do professionally? What is your, how do you sort of characterise your profession?

Jefferson Fisher (2:38)

Well I'm a trial attorney by trade.

Steven Bartlett (2:40)

What does that mean?

Jefferson Fisher (2:42)

That means I help clients with legal needs, I'm board certified in personal injury, it's when people get hurt. I have trials, so that means there are other attorneys that don't ever go to a courtroom, I go into a courtroom.

Steven Bartlett (2:56)

And you stand before a judge and a jury?

Jefferson Fisher (2:58)

Yeah, you have a judge, you have a jury, you have a court reporter, a bailiff, you have opposing attorneys, there are people in the room.

Steven Bartlett (3:04)

And you try and convince those people of your point of view to get a particular outcome?

Jefferson Fisher (3:08)

I advocate my clients' facts in order to get the result that they want.

Steven Bartlett (3:12)

So, why did you think it was important to write a book about conversation, talking, getting what you want from the conversations we have with people we care about?

Jefferson Fisher (3:23)

Because I have seen time and time again that when I am training a client is what I call it, I'm preparing them for cross-examination, for deposition, they really don't know how to engage in conflict. And so, I can't think of any other profession that is more entrenched in conflict, maybe outside of a boxer or some, you know, UFC something, that deals with actual conflict and sits there and listens to it all than in the legal world and a trial attorney. And so, yeah, it's my job to advocate based on my clients' facts to get them the result that they want. The reason why I wrote that book and how that book applies is I took a lot of the lessons that I teach every one of my clients and put them in that book because I'm sitting there preparing them for cross-examination and realizing, oh wait, they are definitely afraid of the conflict that they're in because most of the time, it's the most emotional, stressful, overwhelmed they are ever in their life. They're in a place they've never been. They don't know what it's like. They've only seen it on TV. And so it's my job to kind of take their hand and say this is how we're gonna do it.