The French Quarter | The Walkers Ep5

**SPEAKER_1** (0:04)
The Observer.

**Chloe Hadjimatheou** (0:12)
In the week after my original investigation into The Salt Path was published, two things caught my immediate attention. One was something I'd been half expecting. Raynor Winn published a lengthy statement on her website contesting my article.

**SPEAKER_3** (0:27)
She wrote how the investigation was grotesquely unfair, highly misleading, and seeks to systematically pick apart my life, and how she can't allow any more doubt to be cast on the validity of those memories or the joy they have given so many.

**Chloe Hadjimatheou** (0:45)
In particular, there was this line that she'd offered to discuss the allegations privately with me to correct the record, but that I'd refused her invitation. That wasn't true. I've wanted to hear from Raynor from day one, but despite almost a dozen invitations from me, she's never accepted. I say all this because the thing that has consistently been missing in this story is who Moth and Raynor Winn are. The story I've been able to piece together is to a large extent the story of what's not true, what didn't happen, rather than what really did. And I was starting to come to terms with the fact that if they wouldn't talk to me, I was unlikely to ever get closer to really understanding them. Except that then, the second more remarkable thing happened. Days after my article came out, there was a post on the professional networking site LinkedIn. It was from someone who said that Raynor Winn and Moth, or Sally and Tim Walker, were his uncle and aunt. And he was calling them liars.
I messaged him privately and he immediately called me back. In that call, this jumble of anger and hurt came tumbling out. When I tried to make sense of it all, he suggested I speak to his sister. She knows the whole story, he told me. So I dialled her number.

**SPEAKER_3** (2:18)
Hello?

**Chloe Hadjimatheou** (2:18)
Hi, it's Chloe.

**Cecile** (2:20)
I just want to say first of all, thank you. Sorry. Quite emotional.

**SPEAKER_3** (2:26)
Thank you for exposing Tim and Sally.

**Chloe Hadjimatheou** (2:31)
I hadn't expected her to be so emotional.

**Cecile** (2:34)
Sorry.

**SPEAKER_3** (2:35)
I'll pull myself together.

**Chloe Hadjimatheou** (2:36)
Don't be sorry. Don't be sorry. It's okay. I didn't realise this is so raw for you and so difficult.

**Cecile** (2:44)
It's been a very emotional subject for a long time. And to the will, she protects this image, but she is a completely different person.

**Chloe Hadjimatheou** (2:55)
She told me that for years she'd been infuriated because she could see these public figures, Raynor and Moth, receiving accolades, adoration and sympathy, when in reality, she said, the real couple behind the public façade were very different people.

**Cecile** (3:12)
I've been waiting for this story to come out, hoping it would come out for years because I thought I have no proof.

**Chloe Hadjimatheou** (3:22)
I'm Chloe Hadjimatheou and from Tortoise Investigates and The Observer, this is The Walkers, The real Salt Path, Episode 5, The French Quarter.

**Cecile** (3:38)
I'm all right. Well, feeling a bit nervous, actually.

**Chloe Hadjimatheou** (3:41)
Cecile's a single mum with two young kids and she lives in France. Her parents, Moth's brother and his wife, moved there when she was 19

**Cecile** (3:51)
It's about an hour and a half from Bordeaux, I suppose, and they sit in the middle of the countryside, lovely little hamlets. I mean, not the most picturesque of hamlets, I'll be honest.

**Chloe Hadjimatheou** (4:00)
Cecile's quite open about all that's happened over the years. She's not hiding from public view. But at the same time, she doesn't want members of her family who don't want to take part in this podcast to be hounded by the media. So she's chosen not to use her real name. Over the next two episodes, you're going to hear from people, including close family members who've known Tim and Sally for decades. I need to emphasize this is their side of the story. We don't have a detailed version of how Sally and Tim understood everything that happened because they've declined to engage with us. When I started chatting to Cecile, the first thing she did is take me back to a time before The Salt Path, before the names Raynor Winn and Moth had made it into the public sphere, to a time when they were just her aunt Sally and uncle Tim.

**Cecile** (4:49)
Tim, he's got that character that, I mean, when you were a kid at least, he was very good at creating enthusiasm, creating energy and he loved to be the fun uncle. He was like, Tim's here, we're going to have a great day. Sally tended to be a bit more quiet. She wasn't like a central player, I suppose. She made sure everyone was taken care of and everyone always had, there was always nice food and everyone's got, there's always a cup of tea and cake and things.