The Ezra Klein Show: The A.I. Revolt Is Here

SPEAKER_1 (0:00)

Support for this podcast comes from the new book, Stay Calm by David Booth, available now at staycalminvesting.com.

David Booth (0:07)

Hi, I'm David Booth. For more than 50 years, I've worked in financial markets. Investing is like so many things in life. Small, faithful steps compound more powerfully than most people anticipate, especially when given enough time. I wrote the book because I'd like to have people feel calmer and more confident about investing.

SPEAKER_1 (0:25)

Discover how science-based investing can help you live better and feel better along the way at staycalminvesting.com. That's staycalminvesting.com.

SPEAKER_3 (0:56)

So we are taking this week off, along with our producers, to get ready for our finale extravaganza, our last ever episode of Hard Fork, which will be next week. And when you see the choreography, you'll understand why we needed a week to prepare. Exactly. There's pyro, there's choreo. It's going to be a big production. There's oreos.

But until then, we have a very special treat to share with you. You may remember past Hard Fork guest Jasmine Sun. She recently appeared on The Ezra Klein Show to talk about her reporting on data centers. Yeah, she took this really fascinating reporting trip through the Midwest this summer, interviewing people on all sides of the debate throughout Wisconsin and Michigan. She wrote a piece called No Data Centers In My Backyard, Money, Power and Populism in the AI. Buildup on her sub stack. Really great, really worth a read. And after you read it, you should listen to this conversation with Ezra.

And then we'll be back next week one more time. And among other things, we'll tell you what we're doing next. We'll be back in a week to say goodbye and bring you our very special finale episode. But in the meantime, enjoy Jasmine and Ezra talking about data centers.

Ezra Klein (2:35)

What is big, ugly, and has united Republicans and Democrats at a time when it has felt like nothing else could? AI data centers.

Last August, a heat map news poll found that about 4 in 10 voters would oppose a data center being built where they live. By May of this year, opposition grew to 7 in 10 Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, a Republican, of course, has proposed a new Citizens Bill of Rights for AI.

Ron DeSantis (3:01)

The incentives of big tech are not the same as what's in the interest of the people and the public.

Ezra Klein (3:09)

Senator Bernie Sanders called for a National Data Center moratorium.

Bernie Sanders (3:11)

This moratorium will give democracy a chance to catch up with the transformative changes that we are witnessing and make sure that the benefits of these technologies work for all of us, not just the wealthiest people on Earth.

Ezra Klein (3:30)

There are over a hundred local or statewide moratorium proposals across the country. And here in New York, Governor Kathy Hochul, not usually thought of as a hardcore populist, just imposed a one-year moratorium on data center construction.

Kathy Hochul (3:42)

These hyperscale AI data centers consume enormous amounts of power, truly threatening to outpace our grid's capacity, and they drive up costs for local ratepayers. And I refuse to let those costs be passed on to New Yorkers who already pay too much for their utility bills.

Ezra Klein (4:04)

So I wanted to get into the fight over data centers. How much of this is really about water or electricity or aesthetics? And how much is about AI itself and the companies that are behind it?

My guest today is Jasmine Sun. Jasmine has been doing excellent coverage of both the culture inside the AI companies, unusual culture, and the anger that is building against them in the rest of the country. I highly recommend following her sub-stack, but right now she just finished her reporting trip in the Midwest, talking to the people organizing against these data centers. And I wanted to hear what she'd learned.

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Support for this podcast comes from the new book, Stay Calm by David Booth. Available now at staycalminvesting.com.

David Booth (5:27)

Hi, I'm David Booth. For more than 50 years, I've worked in financial markets. Investing is like so many things in life. Small, faithful steps compound more powerfully than most people anticipate, especially when given enough time. I wrote the book because I'd like to have people feel calmer and more confident about investing.