The Dans Ruin Christmas

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Dan McClellan (0:46)

I think it's just vibes. So here it is the Lamb of God, so you got to have some shepherds come by and go, yep, that's the Lamb of God. Well, there's your problem right there. You left him in the manger. Wait, you can take him out of the manger?

Hey, everybody, I'm Dan McClellan.

Dan Beecher (1:12)

And I'm Dan Beecher.

Dan McClellan (1:13)

And you're listening to the Data Over Dogma podcast, where we increase public access to the academic study of the Bible and religion, and we combat the spread of misinformation about the same. How are things today, Dan?

Dan Beecher (1:25)

Oh, it's the most wonderful time of the year.

Dan McClellan (1:30)

It's getting to be that.

Dan Beecher (1:30)

Or so the song says. Not technically for us in our actual timeline, but for the people hearing this, by the time this gets out to the world, it will be officially Christmas time.

Dan McClellan (1:43)

Yeah, well, the radio stations here in Utah have been playing Christmas music for a few weeks now. So, and I just received a package, or probably my wife received a package with a bunch of candy cane shaped throw pillows, so colored and shaped throw pillows. So yes, it is definitely that time. And it's not even Thanksgiving yet.

Dan Beecher (2:09)

Yeah, although by the time you're hearing this, it obviously has been Thanksgiving. If you're Canadian, it was Thanksgiving like a year and a half ago. So, you know, that's it. But yes, we we thought this is one of those rare moments where you and I, Dan, the two guys, the two overburdened with ADHD guys actually planned ahead enough to get a Christmas thing to happen before Christmas. So I'm very proud of us.

Dan McClellan (2:37)

It didn't work for Halloween, but gosh darn it.

Dan Beecher (2:40)

No, every now and then we can make it happen. And for four weeks ahead of plan or whatever. But I will say this, this is a good one. I have a hunch this is going to be a very shareable episode, just because we we are looking down on all the who's in Whoville and planning to grinch this thing to death. We're going to ruin Christmas.

Dan McClellan (3:06)

The Dans is ruined Christmas. Yeah. It's the goal.

Dan Beecher (3:10)

So why don't we launch in?

It's just one subject today. Let's just launch in and sort of let's start with maybe a, because we're just talking about the nativity, right? The birth of Jesus. Why don't you start by giving us an overview, a 35,000 foot look at what we're going to be diving into?

Dan McClellan (3:35)

Yeah. Because of turbulence, I might bring it up to 37 or 39,000 feet.

But yeah, in short, we're looking at the accounts in Matthew, the end of chapter one, the beginning of chapter two. And then we're looking at the account in Luke. And Luke's is much larger. And this is where we get most of the traditions that are associated with what we think of as the nativity. And actually, these two accounts, and then we'll talk a little bit about it when we get to these details, but some of the things that people associate with the nativity, for instance, Mary riding on a donkey, Jesus being born in a cave, Joseph being really old, traditions like that, if you associate them with the nativity, that actually comes from a pseudepigraphic text called The Protoevangelium of James or The Proto Gospel of James. We can talk about that later. But we have Jesus who probably was born in Nazareth, at least the tradition has Jesus being of Nazareth, but he's got to be born in Bethlehem if he's going to be the Messiah. And so the earliest gospel, Mark, and certainly the earliest writings in the New Testament, Paul, never talk about Jesus' birth at all, because it probably just wasn't relevant until questions began to arise as the tradition is circulating. People were like, well, but where was he born? Because it says the Messiah is supposed to be born over here. And so we don't have nativity accounts in the earliest gospel. They're in Matthew and Luke. And traditionally, people think of Matthew and Luke as the middle two gospels. Mark is the first and John is the last, but Luke might be the last. And the two chapters that cover the nativity might even be secondary additions to Luke. So these are traditions that are being added quite late to the tradition that are trying to cover this gap in where Jesus came from and say Jesus was from Bethlehem, because that's where the Messiah was supposed to be from.