The Best Trade Is Still Ahead with Jordi Visser | Raoul Pal The Jounry Man

Raoul Pal (0:00)

The issue is, is which people don't understand, is once you start leaning into this stuff, your actual constraint is still the same, which is there is more demand, and last month I spent 11 grand on top of my max subscription. This is what people don't understand. It's almost, well, it is infinite demand.

Jordi Visser (0:15)

It's infinite demand, and the more you use it, the more it fills up. And that's why anyone who thinks that they're gonna get free time from AI, it's the opposite. My time is completely saturated.

Raoul Pal (0:24)

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About once a quarter, I always have a fantastic conversation with a very good friend of mine, Jordi Visser. Jordi and I, same background, the hedge fund world, investment banks, and we both leapt into the world of crypto and technology and overlay it with our macro thinking. It's always a great conversation. I'm sure you're going to enjoy it. But before we get to today's show, this episode is brought to you by Pyth. Pyth Network is the fastest growing financial data company today, trusted by Fidelity Investments, the US. Department of Commerce, Revolut, Kalshi, Jane Street, Coinbase, and many more. They provide real-time market data across 3000 equities, commodities, crypto, FX rates, and more. They're the first and largest provider of 24-7 financial indices and offer the widest array of market data for the lowest cost. Go to Pyth.network to take advantage of their free trial.

Join me, Raoul Pal, as I go on a journey of discovery through the macro, crypto, and exponential age landscapes. In The Journeyman, I talk to the smartest people in the world so we can all become smarter together.

Jordi Visser, how the devil are you?

Jordi Visser (2:08)

Raoul, I'm great. How are you doing? Good. Take my glasses off for you.

Raoul Pal (2:15)

I had surgery. I've got rid of my glasses finally.

Jordi Visser (2:18)

You had Lasik finally?

Raoul Pal (2:19)

I had cataract surgery because I'm an old man and I can now see. It's amazing.

Jordi Visser (2:24)

Yeah. I had Lasik surgery, I don't know if it's maybe 12 years ago now.

It was great for the first five years and then you need readers anyway.

Raoul Pal (2:35)

Yeah, exactly. But it's amazing the technology, right? It's just amazing. You just get that done. So, what's happening with you? What's on your mind right now?

I always love our chats because I have no idea where they're going to go. We just go somewhere.

Jordi Visser (2:51)

Well, rather than start with crypto and AI, let's talk bonds.

Raoul Pal (3:00)

Yeah, okay. Interesting.

Jordi Visser (3:02)

Where my brain is, I literally believe this is the most, the biggest marketing scam I've ever seen in terms of people so fixated on this quote unquote collapse in bonds around the globe on 30-year yields.

And I think this is a social media thing more than anything. And it only hit me when someone said something to me and said, have you looked at the charts of US bonds? And I went, well, yeah, I look at the total return of them all the time and they're down 3% year to date to the 20-plus ETF.

This is not a big move, but because you have these charts showing, well, this is the highest yield in the last 20 years. And I got into a discussion recently with someone we both know. And they said, how are you not concerned about this with regards to AI and the capital build out? And I've heard you talk about some of this stuff. And I said, when did it become this thing where when PMIs around the globe are going higher, when profits are are not only soaring, but they're at levels almost unprecedented. But they are unprecedented when you put the fact that we're not hiring anyone, that employment is barely growing, and we're at recessionary type hiring levels, profit margins are expanding. Don't you think you might be missing something? And oh, by the way, if you would have sold the Nikkei last May when they hit their highs in 30 year yields, you'd be down 70 percent or missing 70 percent. So that's where my head is right now is, I think this this bond yield panic that everyone has, that I think Ray Dalio and everyone's gone in and then, you know, the op-ed from Druck, I think it just has a big focus and Ken Besson actually keep this in check. When the reality is we've been through enough cycles that yields going higher is probably going to mean a lot of weaker places. Companies go out of business, but that was going to happen with AI anyway. So I don't view this as a negative thing. I view it as a positive.