The Basement: Brian Laythe | Ghosts, Possession, and Shadow People

AJ (0:00)

Your credit card company is hoping you don't hear this. They're charging you 21% APR interest, making it hard to pay down your balance. A home equity loan from Rocket Mortgage could cut your interest rate by more than half. So you could wipe out your high interest credit card debt with the equity you've built in your home, without touching your current mortgage rate. See how much you could save at rocketmortgage.com. Rocket Mortgage LLC, license in 50 states. nmlsconsumeraccess.org, number 3030 Call 800-4-ROCKET for full program details. Today I'm talking with Dr. Brian Laythe, a social psychologist who spent years hauling truckloads of equipment into haunted houses, then did the thing almost nobody does in his field. He published the numbers. Three studies, and in all three, the electromagnetic field shifted right before something happened. Shadow figures out of the basement with no other exit. Beach balls off a bed 11 times in an hour, and nobody knows why. Beach balls off a bed? That's not a haunting human. That's a bachelorette party losing their damage deposit. I don't get it. Anyway, how do you know what goes on at a bachelorette party? I used to be an exotic dancer. My stage name was Magic Pike.

Okay. Oh, you're so jelly on my wrist.

Today, we're covering what ghost hunting shows get wrong about those blinking meters, why Brian isn't convinced hauntings are dead people, and a personality scale that predicts who has these experiences. Oh, not dead people, huh? Well, I guess grandma's off the hook. Off the hook for what? Well, every noise in the attic we've blamed on her for like 20 years. Turns out it's probably just a raccoon.

Or a squatter, who knows? And there is an abandoned rectory in Cincinnati where he told the owners to shut down. That story ended his fieldwork. And after hearing it, I wouldn't go back either. After our conversation, I'll come back and break everything down. Let's go down to the basement.

Okay, I read your dissertation, loved it.

You hired actors to insult fraternities to attack their beliefs. Yeah. What was going on there?

Brian Laythe (2:19)

When I was in graduate school before I officially got into parapsychology, I was really interested in the idea of social identity theory, which is, in essence, a theory that says, when you label groups and make them different, you will instantly get bias. You will instantly get prejudice.

And it's silly because it's not talked about a lot, but it is a hugely robust area of social psychology research. It's not two or three papers, it's a couple of hundred.

AJ (2:50)

I bet.

Brian Laythe (2:52)

And so the whole point of the dissertation was, if I bring an actress or an actor into these groups, and I basically tell the group that they're a piece of crap, right?

AJ (3:04)

Well, put us in the room. Who's the group and what are the attacks?

Brian Laythe (3:07)

Well, oh man, this is 20 something years ago.

So I did religious groups, I did fraternities and sororities, and I did a couple of political groups. And I actually had to extend my dissertation time because I actually ended up going to, I think, I want to say at least three, if not four, colleges or universities to get enough groups to do it.

AJ (3:28)

Yeah, it was a chunky paper.

Brian Laythe (3:29)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm surprised you pulled up my dissertation.

So we would...

AJ (3:35)

Well, hang on. Your dissertation is the whole theme of your career, that dissertation.

Brian Laythe (3:40)

You think so?

AJ (3:42)

I do indeed. It's all about beliefs and how if someone has a belief that's strong enough, no matter how much you assault or attack it, they will not waver.

Brian Laythe (3:52)

Yes. No, I mean, you're absolutely right. That was incredibly insightful. I should have caught that.

Well, yes, because the reason I even got into graduate school was I started in psychology of religion, right? So the idea was, let's look at group differences. Let's look at what happens when you bring a actress in who says, I am mad at your group. You did this to me. You did that to me, which was essentially what they would do. They would claim to be from another student organization.

AJ (4:19)

Tell us what specifically. Give the attack.

Brian Laythe (4:22)

I am trying to remember. It's like...

AJ (4:24)

They make it up.

Brian Laythe (4:25)

Oh, make it up. Okay. You look funny and smell... No, there was...

If I remember...

AJ (4:31)

Like conservative kids, liberal kids?

Brian Laythe (4:34)

Yep.

Several sororities, several fraternities. The claim was they came from a rival student organization.