The Art and Science of Building Healthy Relationships | Drs. John and Julie Gottman

Julie Gottman (0:00)

We like to say, love is a verb.

It's not a noun, it's a verb. And it means placing your partner's feelings, needs, and dreams as either as important as your own, or at times more important than your own, and treating your partner accordingly.

Michael Gervais (0:31)

Welcome back, or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Michael Gervais, I trade in training, a high-performance psychologist. And we've got an exciting two for one today. As I sit down with doctors, John and Julie Gottman, I have a feeling a lot of you will be paying extra close attention to the insights of today's guests, the world's leading relationship scientists. The Gottmans have been called the Einstein's of love. John and Julie have been studying love for over five decades. They've compiled data on over 3000 couples, all in service of one goal, to identify the building blocks of healthy, loving, and long lasting relationships. Together, they've co-authored many bestselling books and founded the Gottman Institute, all to further their commitment to research-based approaches to relationships. Their new book, The Love Prescription, is a New York Times bestseller and details a simple but powerful seven day plan to transform your relationship.

I'm honored to have this conversation with them, to learn about a few small changes that they found to fundamentally alter romantic love for the better. Their research has been foundational in my personal and professional life.

Whether you're a skeptic or a romantic, married, pursuing a romantic relationship or longing for a way to expand your perspective on either, I trust you'll find this conversation enlightening. I think all of us want to experience healthy love and many of us find it elusive. And so I'm grateful to John and Julie for spending so much of their lives on a topic we can all deeply resonate with. And if you're enjoying this podcast and haven't already, just a quick reminder to hit the subscribe or follow button and to drop us a review wherever you're listening. It is the easiest and zero cost way to support the show. So with that, let's dive right into this week's conversation with doctors John and Julie Gottman.

Oh, I can't believe I'm sitting down with the Gottmans. And I just want to say thank you for the contribution you've made to the field and to my professional and personal life as well. And you've been in this for over 50 years and studying the science of love.

You know, just as a general idea, what is still fascinating you about this science and particularly about the science of love?

Julie Gottman (3:04)

You know, I think what is fascinating me, Mike, is how to treat couples who have complicated lives. Couples who may be seriously depressed or one partner may be struggling with an addiction. I have a lot of couples who are coming in, particularly after the pandemic, and so distressed, so unhappy. They may have lost their direction.

They're not sure what's going to give their life meaning and whether or not they really belong with this current partner. And many times they don't have the tools to forge a bridge between them, particularly since they were crushed together during the pandemic and are just looking for space at this point. So it's challenging and particularly challenging as a result of what's outside their relationship as well as what's inside.

John Gottman (4:11)

Yeah, I would have to agree with Julie that we did a study with 40,000 couples about to start therapy, an international study with same-sex and cross-sex couples, all kinds of couples.

And Julie's right, over 60% of the time, couples had these additional problems, these comorbidities that went along with unhappiness in the relationship. They were struggling with addiction, violence, depression, all kinds of other things that really impinged on the relationship. And treating couples with all of those problems by the time they start therapy is a real challenge.

Michael Gervais (4:57)

Yeah, it's one of the more complex, in my mind, it's one of the more complicated parts of the science, the psychological science is about relationships. And there's, I'd love your take on why you think it's so complicated or why I sense that it's so complicated. Maybe you value the complexity as well.

And do you have a bright line about why this part of the science is so complicated for so many of us?

Julie Gottman (5:26)

You know, I think Dr. Mike, it's a really, really good question.

And there's a very simple answer to it, which is nobody took relationships 101 in high school. Nobody learned the skills. Nobody typically saw modeled in their homes the ideal relationship where people were really solving problems in a kind way, in a calm way. People may be getting flooded when they were growing up, meaning they would get so upset they would be screaming and yelling at one another. So most of us didn't have role models on which to base our own relationship skills and intimacy later in life. So how are you supposed to learn these things?