The AI Job Disaster Congress Refuses to Fix

**Kara Swisher** (0:01)
Support for today's show comes from me, Kara Swisher and Johns Hopkins University. Last week, I interviewed Gina Raimondo, 40th Secretary of Commerce and 75th Governor of Rhode Island, in the fifth live episode of On with Kara Swisher that I've recorded at the Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg Center in Washington DC. In each episode, I've posted timely discussions on AI, policy, copyright, and intellectual property, and more as part of the Hopkins Bloomberg Center's Discovery Series. Listen to my conversation with Gina Raimondo in this week's episode and stay tuned for more live discussions to come from our partnership with Johns Hopkins University.
What is the problem on the federal level? Why couldn't the Biden administration get this done? Why couldn't?

**Gina Raimondo** (0:52)
I mean, like Congress-

**Kara Swisher** (0:53)
Long eye roll for people listening at home.

**Gina Raimondo** (0:56)
This is a podcast. You can't see my face.

**Kara Swisher** (0:58)
Well, you can now.

**Joanna Stern** (0:59)
We're not podcasters now.

**Gina Raimondo** (1:00)
Good point, actually.

**Kara Swisher** (1:13)
Hi, everyone from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is On with Kara Swisher and I'm Kara Swisher. My guest today is Gina Raimondo, the US. Secretary of Commerce under the Biden administration and former governor of Rhode Island. During Gina's tenure as secretary, she held a crucial role in the passage of two huge pieces of legislation, the CHIPS Act and the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act. Now Gina has been turning her efforts to getting the American workforce ready for AI with a non-partisan organization she co-founded with former Indiana governor Eric Holcomb. It's really important to talk to Gina. She's one of these quiet, competent people that always end up doing a lot of big things in ways that are critically important. I think the CHIPS Act and the Infrastructure Bill are very important. And she's someone who actually appeals to people across party lines. And she makes an effort to do so in an incredibly competent way.
What she's talking about is really important. And of course, she may be a presidential candidate too. So it's important to listen to how she thinks about these things. And of course, AI and jobs is an important issue for the American voters. This episode was recorded live at the Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg Center in Washington, DC as part of their Discovery Series. Our expert question today comes from Joanna Stern. So, stick around.
I've wanted to get you on forever, as you know, and here we are finally. I'm very excited. All right. Secretary Gina Raimondo. Gina, thank you for coming on On.
And thanks to the Johns Hopkins University, which currently is celebrating its 150th year. If you didn't know, Hopkins is the America's first research university, and I'm glad to be back at the Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg Center in Washington DC. So, let's get started. We have a lot to cover on AI. This is something I know you talk, you were one of the first people to talk about this as a Commerce Secretary and in other places that I recall hearing about. But I want to get a sense of where you are and what's coming. So, on a scale of 1-10, how worried are you for the United States about the rapid acceleration of what we're seeing? And call on the stuff you had done as Commerce Secretary, and maybe as the Governor of Rhode Island, which is I think the coolest job ever. But it is the best job.

**Gina Raimondo** (3:48)
Being the Governor is the best job in American politics, I think.

**Kara Swisher** (3:52)
It's awesome.

**Gina Raimondo** (3:53)
Well, first of all, thank you for having me. I'm a big fan. And it's fun for me to be here. I'd say, you know, nine, pretty high.

**Kara Swisher** (4:01)
Wow.

**Gina Raimondo** (4:02)
So and here's why.

**Kara Swisher** (4:04)
Okay.

**Gina Raimondo** (4:04)
You're saying concerns.

**Kara Swisher** (4:06)
Yeah.

**Gina Raimondo** (4:06)
Yeah. Here's why.
Because I don't think the country has the laws, the institutions, the, you know, we're not ready. Commerce Secretary is an interesting job. You're half trade minister and half tech minister in the US system. So I was the AI minister.

**Joanna Stern** (4:25)
Right. You also get the census, right?

**Gina Raimondo** (4:27)
And census and fish. And if you want to know anything about red snapper, catchment, I'm your woman. But if you were to say to me, also, hey Gina, on a scale of one to ten, how excited are you about its potential? I'd also say a nine. Right?
I think it's going to be fantastic to accelerate research, cure diseases, make life easier. I'm really bullish. But what I see now is, and you said it a little bit before, I see the transition to an AI economy as potentially precipitating a period of very high unemployment, particularly among certain kinds of people.