The 10,000 Paper Cuts That Teach Women Not to Trust Themselves, with Melinda French Gates

Dr. Becky (0:00)

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Melinda French Gates (0:43)

I'm good enough.

Dr. Becky (0:44)

I'm good enough.

Melinda French Gates (0:45)

I know myself enough. I'm worthy as I am. And I'm never gonna accept somebody else's worth to put on top of me. I'm worthy as I am.

Dr. Becky (1:03)

I've been thinking a lot about how women learn to trust themselves. Or don't. Or how we start out trusting ourselves and then end up as adults, not even knowing what that means to trust ourselves. Think about some of the things we hear growing up. You're fine. Don't be so sensitive. You're so dramatic. It's not that bad. You make a big deal out of things that are just so small.

None of these things are necessarily life-changing on their own. We've all said these things here or there. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about when you hear this over and over again, because then any kid would start to think, I guess I'm someone who overreacts. I guess I'm someone who doesn't read things in the right way. I guess other people are better at knowing how I feel than I am.

Now, what happens to that girl when she grows up? Well, maybe she's sitting in a doctor's office and something doesn't feel right. The doctor says everything is normal or minimizes her story, and she thinks, well, I guess that makes sense.

I've never been a good estimator of my own feelings.

Or maybe she just had a baby and she's thinking, I don't really think I'm okay. But everyone around her is saying, well, of course, you're exhausted. This is what having a newborn is like, and again, she invalidates her own story because that's what she's learned. My guest today has spent decades thinking about women's lives and women's power and women's health. Melinda French Gates is the founder of Pivotal Ventures, and Pivotal recently released new research with Gallup about women's health in America. I want to talk to Melinda about what they found, but also I want to put a lens on it around trust and how that all relates to being a mom and raising daughters and getting older and whether we figure out how to trust ourselves more. And if we do get there, how? Because I kind of think that's the journey all of us are on. What happens when women learn to trust themselves?

I want to start with your sharing the story of your oldest daughter, Jen, meeting you at the door after work. I want to hear it. You know, your voice refreshes.

Melinda French Gates (3:14)

I drove into the garage, got out of the car, went in the back door. And I was still in my business suit from the day. And I walked in the back door.

And she didn't like that the first time this happened. She just gave me the cold shoulder.

And really gave me the cold shoulder for several hours. Like I was kind of crashed. And so I learned the next time, anytime I came back from a business meeting where I'd been on stage and I, you know, thought I'd done something whatever, wonderful. It wasn't about me. And I learned I needed to put my yoga pants on and a pair of tennis shoes before I came home. And she would meet me by the back door with the caregiver with a book. And I would literally sit down on the mudroom floor and read her book. I needed to be in her world. She taught me that. And she was little, little, like four.

Dr. Becky (4:10)

Wow. She kind of sees you and says, in some ways, you're in work mode.

Melinda French Gates (4:15)

Yes.

Dr. Becky (4:17)

That kind of happens away from me. I want to connect to you, not with work mom, but with at home mom. Absolutely.

Melinda French Gates (4:24)

Do you know, it's funny that you say that, work mom. My youngest daughter said to me one time, mom, stop using your work voice. I don't want you to use your work voice. Right? And so, boy, do kids, I mean, you talk about this, I think, a lot. They tune in to where we are. And I think as I've learned even more, as I watch my daughter now, parent, she's 30 and she has two little girls. I watch her parent.