Teresa Torres: Is AI Re-Prioritizing Delivery Over Discovery (Again)?

**Sean Flaherty** (0:01)
The product community seemed like we were in this cycle where we were building the wrong stuff. When you were on the podcast, you described what product discovery was and how to do it. What has changed in the last four or five years?

**Teresa Torres** (0:16)
I think one of the challenges with AI is it's pulling us in the wrong direction. And I'm a huge fan of AI, we can get into that. This is not an anti-AI sentiment. It's that AI is making it easier and faster to build. And so we're once again putting even more emphasis on delivery, and we're forgetting about, hey, maybe we should be asking, is this the right thing to build?

**Dan** (0:38)
How do they figure out how to get going with a good kind of continuous discovery model in a world where now we're not just learning those fundamentals, but we're trying to apply those fundamentals with all of these new tech approaches coming in, especially with AI?

**Teresa Torres** (0:53)
I actually think that discovery becomes more important, big surprise.
We see a lot of like half-baked AI features that don't really work, right? And, you know, there's a period of time where you're going to get a little bit of lift from saying AI this and AI that, but that period of time actually might already be over. I think we're starting to see some backlash against AI. We're starting to see some backlash against the Foundation Labs and what kind of world they're creating for us. And I think it's no longer going to be good enough to just slap on some AI features.

**Sean Flaherty** (1:29)
How do we get to that point where we can have organizations recognize that we're sprinting in the wrong direction? And how can we bring them back into, I think one of the core tenets of Product Discovery is mapping opportunities, right? So how do we get back to ensuring that everybody's going after the right opportunities?

**Teresa Torres** (1:46)
I wish I had to answer. I will tell you, I feel like I've been advocating for Discovery for 20 years and we've made progress, but there's still plenty of companies and plenty of teams that don't know very much about their customers and don't talk to them and still think they can sit in a room and have all the answers. And that's going to get a lot worse.

**Sean Flaherty** (2:10)
Dan, we just got done with Teresa Torres. She was amazing. She's been on the podcast before, but we had an all new experience this time. Tell us about it.

**Dan** (2:19)
Well, first off, had to not be starstruck. Continuous Discovery Habits was one of the seminal books I read when learning how to be a good product manager. Our discussion was awesome, right? We talked about AI and how it is relating into continuous discovery skills, the importance of maintaining those skills. And then we went all the way to just talking about understanding business and good product habits.

**Sean Flaherty** (2:44)
Amazing stats about just the number of people that aren't able to connect. What they're doing with providing value to the business.

**Dan** (2:52)
This is a great episode.

**Sean Flaherty** (2:53)
Let's get after it. We are here today with Teresa Torres. Teresa Torres is an author, a prominent voice, and writer in the product space, and a past guest of the Product Momentum Podcast, episode 58 in April 2021 And we're super excited to have her back. Her book, Continuous Delivery Habits, essentially required reading for product people. So Teresa, welcome back.

**Teresa Torres** (3:25)
Thanks, it sounds like the last time I was here was literally right before the book came out. The book came out in May of 2021

**Sean Flaherty** (3:33)
Yeah.

**Teresa Torres** (3:34)
And I apologize for correcting you, but it is Continuous Discovery Habits. It's just so fun to find it.

**Sean Flaherty** (3:40)
Thank you. So when you were here last, you talked about how at the time, we were under-emphasizing discovery, we were over-emphasizing delivery. We seemed like we were in this, and when I say we, I mean like the product community, seemed like we were in this cycle where we were building the wrong stuff. When you were on the podcast, you described what product discovery was and how to do it. What has changed in the last four or five years?

**Teresa Torres** (4:09)
I feel like we're on this trajectory probably since like, let's say 2005 to 2020-ish, maybe 22 I'm going to put it at the release of JetGBT, where we were actually getting better. Companies were starting to recognize, we got to include the customer in the process. We need faster feedback loops. I'm not going to say we were getting great at it, but we were, I would say, steadily getting better. I think one of the challenges with AI is it's pulling us in the wrong direction. And I'm a huge fan of AI. We can get into that. This is not an anti-AI sentiment. It's that AI is making it easier and faster to build. And so we're once again putting even more emphasis on delivery, and we're forgetting about, hey, maybe we should be asking, is this the right thing to build?