Tao Huabi: Crispy chilli godmother

**Zing Tsjeng** (0:07)
It's the late 1990s. We're in Guizhou, a landlocked province in southwest China, bordered by Sichuan.

**Simon Jack** (0:14)
A small woman in her 50s stands in the middle of a factory floor. In front, a long line of jars filled with something bright red.

**Zing Tsjeng** (0:21)
She wears a stern expression. She walks down the line, dipping a calloused finger into each jar, then touches the red concoction to her tongue, a tongue that is blistered and swollen.

**Simon Jack** (0:32)
Hundreds of workers watch on, holding their collective breath.
She nods, cracking a small smile. The chillies are good.

**Zing Tsjeng** (0:40)
Welcome to Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service. Each episode we take a billionaire and we find out how they made their money.

**Simon Jack** (0:46)
We take them from zero to their first million, then from a million on to a billion.

**Zing Tsjeng** (0:50)
My name is Zing Tsjeng. I'm a journalist, author and podcaster.

**Simon Jack** (0:53)
And I'm Simon Jack. I'm the BBC's business editor.

**Zing Tsjeng** (0:56)
And now you probably haven't heard of our billionaire, but I'd bet there's a fair feel of you with her face in your refrigerator right now.

**Simon Jack** (1:04)
Now, I didn't think I knew about this billionaire. And then I realised a jar that we've been talking about has been sitting in the fridge for the last couple of years. My kids put this stuff on everything.

**Zing Tsjeng** (1:18)
That's right. We're talking about Lao Gan Ma, the infamously hot, crispy chilli oil that has really taken off around the world.

**Simon Jack** (1:26)
Yeah, founded by a 79-year-old Chinese entrepreneur called Tao Huabi.

**Zing Tsjeng** (1:32)
Lao Gan Ma actually means old godmother, and every jar features Tao's stern, unsmiling face, and that means she's become a cultural phenomenon beyond the product.

**Simon Jack** (1:42)
I didn't think that that person really existed. I thought it was one of those little kind of, you know, I know, Uncle Ben's rice or blah, blah, blah, or whatever, and there's a sort of fictitious character on there. So it news to me that this person actually exists.

**Zing Tsjeng** (1:56)
Right. I similarly always thought she was made up. I feel like a woman with that kind of a face, this kind of a story, would want herself to be on the front of every jar she makes. Yeah. Well, we've got a jar right in front of us, and we are going to do a taste test for people who haven't tried it before, so we can describe to you what it tastes like.

**Simon Jack** (2:14)
Okay, here we go.
Okay, that means it's got a little spoon here. I'm not sure this is advised, having it neat like this. Hang on.

**Zing Tsjeng** (2:22)
Like vodka straight from the bottle. So Simon's going in for another taste.

**Simon Jack** (2:27)
Going in for another one.

**Zing Tsjeng** (2:29)
Yeah.

**Simon Jack** (2:30)
Oily, crunchy, sweet, hot, delicious. Go on, here you go. Some for you.

**Zing Tsjeng** (2:40)
I've also not had any breakfast before recording this, so this is going to go down a treat in my stomach.

**Simon Jack** (2:44)
This goes on just about everything in our household now, with the kids. They put it on their eggs. They put it on, they put on roast chicken, anything, really. It's got a slightly burnt taste to it as well, hasn't it?

**Zing Tsjeng** (2:56)
There's a sort of charred taste to it. And it is crispy.

**Simon Jack** (3:01)
What's in it?

**Zing Tsjeng** (3:02)
So I think it says, and I'm not the world's greatest expert at reading written Chinese, but yeah, chilli, oil, I think some beans, if I'm not mistaken. But you can also sort of see spices in there. I think there's some peppercorns.

**Simon Jack** (3:17)
There's definitely some salt and sugar in there.

**Zing Tsjeng** (3:19)
Also I think there's some MSG.

**Simon Jack** (3:21)
Yeah, okay. Well, what's not to like? Basically, fats, salts, MSG and heat.

**Zing Tsjeng** (3:28)
Well, you might be surprised to learn that it was this very simple condiment that made Tao Huabi a billionaire in 2015

**Simon Jack** (3:35)
I told my kids that and they just could not believe it. They said, you're having me on. The source is beloved around the world. A staggering three million bottles are produced every day.

**Zing Tsjeng** (3:46)
And in fact, Lao Gan Ma has become a kind of viral sensation. Her bottles are all over TikTok, all over Instagram, maybe that's where your kids found it from.

**Simon Jack** (3:54)
Maybe, because she's been nicknamed the hottest woman in China online. But Tao grew up in rural poverty during China's Great Famine.