Summer Staff Picks: Oliver Burkeman

**Savannah Locke** (0:00)
Hi, everyone, I'm Savannah Locke, and I co-host another podcast with Lee C. Camp called The Subtext, where we talk about pop culture through the lens of ethics and philosophy and faith. And I was asked by Lee, please go through all of No Small Endeavor's episodes and tell me which one is your favorite. And after my search, I decided on Oliver Burkeman's episode, and it's called Time Management for Mortals. Over the summer, I have read Oliver Burkeman's newest book called Meditations for Mortals, and it has been amazing, and I cannot recommend his thought process and thinking and conscious living enough. So coming right up is this episode with Oliver Burkeman. And after you get finished, you should come listen to The Subtext because we have a really good time.

**Lee C. Camp** (0:45)
I'm Lee C. Camp. This is No Small Endeavor, exploring what it means to live a good life.
I'm a long recovering perfectionist. And as a therapist told me years ago, I can be obsessed with productivity. So I've always loved trying new productivity systems, methods, hacks and habits. And as Thomas Merton says somewhere, I have often found myself trying to ring every last morsel of pleasure out of some wondrous moment to the detriment of the moment's wonder. I do remain grateful for many of the habits of productivity and focus I've learned, but a particularly pernicious temptation accompanies those methods and habits, namely seeking to quantify everything, give every minute some special meaning, or make every hour especially productive. This turns out, quite counter-intuitively, perhaps, to be a self-defeating trap. It's this trap that our guest, Oliver Burkeman, diagnoses so well in his New York Times bestselling book, Four Thousand Weeks, his title, pointing to the length of a somewhat generous average lifespan. So he opens his book this way. The average human lifespan is absurdly, terrifyingly, insultingly short.
So we learn ways to try to ignore, overcome, or defeat that finitude. For example, our productivity methods may be a primary effort to overcome that finitude. To this, Burkeman says, The world is bursting with wonder, and yet, it's the rare productivity guru who seems to have considered the possibility that the ultimate point of all our frenetic doing might be to experience more of that wonder.
So today, take your time and relish with me this conversation with Oliver Burkeman and make a bit of space for a world overflowing with the possibility of wonder.
Hey friends, Lee here. If you enjoy our conversations at the intersection of faith, purpose and living well, then I have the perfect podcast recommendation for you, With and For, hosted by Dr. Pam King. With and For's latest season brings together psychology and spiritual wisdom in a way that feels thoughtful, grounded, deeply human. And it's hosted by my friend, Dr. Pam King, a developmental psychologist and ordained minister, who offers practical guidance towards a life of thriving. I'd recommend starting with their episode featuring Parker J. Palmer, world-renowned writer, speaker, activist, Quaker elder, who focuses on issues in education, spirituality, and social change. A moving and instructive conversation. Can't recommend it enough. Also, check out With and For's special summer series of wisdom practices, released each Monday. They're short exercises shared by guests that will become a toolkit for thriving. Consider them your experiment in becoming more fully alive. So go ahead, follow With and For, hosted by Dr. Pam King, wherever you're listening now.

**SPEAKER_3** (4:11)
Energy low, lack of concentration, mental fog, you might be dehydrated.
Gatorade Zero powders have been designed scientifically to help you improve your body's hydration balance. Made with the number one mix of electrolytes, without artificial colors or flavors. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide. Gatorade hydrates better than water. Is it in you? Signs of mild and moderate dehydration. Call your doctor if symptoms persist.

**SPEAKER_4** (4:40)
This episode is brought to you by Tidy Cats. Here to level up your litter game with their new Performance Plus lineup. Your home is your happy place, your cats, VIPs. So when it comes to the litter box, excellence isn't optional. Choose from products that specialize in max power clumping, low tracking, or odor fighting so advanced, stink won't see it coming. Tidy Cats Performance Plus. Mission mighty, keep it tidy. Shop now at tidycats.com.

**Lee C. Camp** (5:11)
Oliver Burkeman is the author of the New York Times bestseller, Four Thousand Weeks, which we'll be discussing today. He's also the author of other books including The Antidote, Happiness for People Who Cannot Stand Positive Thinking. For years, he wrote a popular column for The Guardian entitled, This Column Will Change Your Life.
In his email newsletter, The Imperfectionist, he writes about productivity, mortality, the power of limits and building a meaningful life in an age of distraction. He lives now in the North York Moors. Welcome, Oliver.