Substack Exclusive: Why Spiritual Questions Open You To Risk

**Mayim Bialik** (0:04)
Hi, I'm Mayim Bialik.

**Jonathan Cohen** (0:05)
And I'm Jonathan Cohen.

**Mayim Bialik** (0:06)
And welcome to our Breakdown. Today, we're sharing a conversation with Mark Vicente. He's the filmmaker behind What the Bleep Do We Know? He's also the Nxivm whistleblower. His testimony helped put Keith Raniere in federal prison. So if you saw The Vow on HBO, you know who Mark Vicente is. He's actually here to talk about his new film, The Narcissist's Playbook. It's the map he wishes he had had while under the control of a cult leader.

**Jonathan Cohen** (0:36)
One of the most powerful parts of Mark's story is that he was in not just one but two cults. And he talks about the things that make us vulnerable, how narcissists work and how they use a specific set of techniques to manipulate people. And he outlines them.

**Mayim Bialik** (0:56)
He also spent a decade inside Nxivm. So I actually first learned about Mark from that and was so excited that he also happened to be the What the Bleep Do We Know! guy. So this is a really, really cool conversation. He has a new film that he's going to talk about. It's called The Narcissist's Playbook. And it's the map that he wishes he had had while under the influence and the control of a cult leader. So The Narcissist's Playbook features self-identified narcissists explaining why they do what they do, why they enjoy doing it. And actually, a friend of the podcast, Dr. Ramani Durvasula, appears in the film talking about how one in six adults meets the criteria for narcissistic personality traits. Mark tells you what to watch for, the deepest trick of narcissistic abuse. It's really, really a great conversation. We're so excited to bring it here.

**Jonathan Cohen** (1:48)
If you want to sneak peek on conversations like this, right when they happen, head over to Mayim Bialik's Breakdown on Substack. Join the growing Breaker community. You can get ad-free episodes and content not released anywhere else.

**Mayim Bialik** (2:00)
Also, Jonathan has a ton of cool conversations like this one over on his Substack, which is Practical Spirituality, so check that out as well. We hope you enjoy the conversation, and we'll see you over on Substack.

**SPEAKER_3** (2:12)
Queen Carvania stood haloed by the morning sun.

**Mark Vicente** (2:16)
An army hung on her every word.

**SPEAKER_3** (2:19)
My champions, I have sold my chariot on Carvana. It was a lovely SUV, an inexplicably queenly offer. They're even coming to the castle to collect it. Tonight, we feast.
Crowd cheers An offer you can feast on. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pick up fees may apply.

**Jonathan Cohen** (2:41)
Mayim Bialik's Breakdown is supported by Helix Sleep.

**Mayim Bialik** (2:44)
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**Jonathan Cohen** (3:55)
helixsleep.com/breakdown.

**Mayim Bialik** (3:58)
Break it down.

**Jonathan Cohen** (4:00)
Mark, where do you want to start? Where are you right now in your life emotionally, intellectually joining me today? Like, let's do a little check in. How are you feeling?

**Mark Vicente** (4:10)
Things are a bit chaotic right now because we're getting ready for the launch of our film, which you saw, that's where you and I met.

**Jonathan Cohen** (4:17)
Take us back to What the Bleep Do We Know? This film was widely credited as the cultural on-ramp for a wave of consciousness and quantum spirituality that followed, including the very famous The Secret. Do you have that association? Do you know that this was the on-ramp?