Spaceplanes Are Upon Us - EP 24 Stefan Powell

**Ashlee Vance** (0:00)
What is the Paris Air Show like? I always wanted to go.

**Stefan Powell** (0:04)
Yeah, really good. Kind of like a, definitely a bit of a mashup between space and, you know, aircraft industry. Pretty exciting to just see like super high performance aircraft like F-35s and Rafaels and like all these jets just doing crazy shit in front of people.

**Ashlee Vance** (0:20)
So they just do, it's part air show in the middle, like they're flying stuff around. And then I guess there's probably a lot of people selling things and it's like a trade show too, isn't it? Or it's just an air show?

**Stefan Powell** (0:30)
Yeah, no, no, it's totally a trade show. Like there's thousands of like actual industry people there and just about everyone from industry attends. But then it's also like definitely an air show, like kids show up as well. Like the last three days of it is kind of like the industry stuff winds down and the kids show up. But the whole time, like literally through every day of the show, like F-35s are flying, A350s are flying, like everyone's just doing the craziest shit, like helicopters doing loops. Like you're literally in a meeting with some people and the F-35s flying over here and the whole table is just shaking and you're like, I can't hear anymore. You kind of have to like postpone your meeting for five minutes while that happens.

**Ashlee Vance** (1:13)
I would like to see that one day. And they do it, I mean, Toulouse is kind of the aviation capital of France, isn't it?

**Stefan Powell** (1:21)
Yep, yeah, yeah, totally. Like that's where all the aircraft manufacturing and stuff is, like, airbuses is centered there and tons of the space industries are there. But Paris, for whatever reason, is like where the actual air show is.

**Ashlee Vance** (1:31)
It's probably easier. All right, I'm going to do a proper intro now.

**Stefan Powell** (1:35)
Yeah, cool.

**Ashlee Vance** (1:36)
All right. Stefan Powell, thank you for joining us.

**Stefan Powell** (1:53)
Yeah, thanks. Thanks for being here.

**Ashlee Vance** (1:56)
You are the co-founder and CEO, and I think also CTO of Dawn Aerospace. Those many, many titles.

**Stefan Powell** (2:05)
Yeah, way too many, way too many ads, that's for sure.

**Ashlee Vance** (2:07)
If you guys are based in New Zealand, we're going to talk all about that. I've been following the company for a few years now. You make, I'll just do it quickly and then we'll get into it, but you make propulsion systems for satellites, and then you also make this very cool space plane. It's totally unique. There's nothing else like it. We're going to talk all about it. I think we're going to get to show a mock-up of it as well.
You and I have known each other for a bit. I wanted a chance to talk about you, Aerospace in New Zealand and what you guys are doing. So thank you for tracking to the studio.

**Stefan Powell** (2:43)
Yeah, we can do all of that and lots more.

**Ashlee Vance** (2:45)
Okay, fantastic. And as always, this episode is brought to you by E1 Ventures.
No cap table is complete without E1 Ventures. Very kind people who helped make this podcast go. All right, here we go. Let's jump in. Let's do the newsy bit. No, let's not. Let's set up. Let's do a little background first. As I mentioned, you hail from New Zealand. Were you born in New Zealand?

**Stefan Powell** (3:17)
Yeah, born in Wellington.

**Ashlee Vance** (3:18)
Your parents are Kiwis?

**Stefan Powell** (3:20)
Yeah, they're both born in New Zealand, although my mom's from Dutch. Her parents immigrated from Europe in the 50s.

**Ashlee Vance** (3:27)
Okay. It's entirely possible that I think I may have badgered you when I was working on my book about Rocket Lab as I hunted through LinkedIn for anyone who had worked at Rocket Lab and you did like a six-month internship?

**Stefan Powell** (3:43)
Yeah, exactly. I did an internship there while I was doing my master's at TU Delft, so it was like doing an internship abroad at home.

**Ashlee Vance** (3:52)
Yeah. Okay. What stage was Rocket Lab at when you did that?

**Stefan Powell** (3:59)
That was free, calling it Electron. Back then, it was called Orbital. Oh. So this is pretty early. Yeah.

**Ashlee Vance** (4:05)
Yeah.

**Stefan Powell** (4:05)
This is 2013, I think. I think it was like 20-ish people at the company. Pretty damn early, like before we had fired the Rutherford at all.

**Ashlee Vance** (4:15)
Yeah. To set the stage for people who don't know, I mean, Rocket Lab is really, when it comes to rockets, is the second most successful commercial space player after SpaceX. I think I just saw them. I can't even keep up with how many times they've flown out because they just flew two in a row in the last couple of weeks, and I think they're up to about 60, 64, 65 launches.