Simon Sinek: How To Be A Better Human

Simon Sinek (0:01)

There's an entire section in the bookshop called Self-Help, but there's no section in the bookshop called Help Others. We have hard skills, the skills you need to do your job, and human skills, the skills you need to be a better human being.

You know, and I want more human skills in the world. What we're talking about is not a recipe for success, it's a recipe for sustained success, and it's also a recipe for joy while you're succeeding, and the ability to learn your lessons when it doesn't go well. That's what we're talking about.

Michael Gervais (0:33)

Welcome back or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Michael Gervais, by trade and training a high-performance psychologist. And I want you to imagine a world where you wake up inspired, you feel safe throughout the day, and you go to bed at night feeling fulfilled by the work that you do. Okay, Simon Sinek has not only imagined such a world for himself and others, but he's dedicated his life to making it a reality. Now for me, I want to wake up inspired, get on the edge and go to bed at night feeling like I've really done something special with my day. Okay, so we've got slightly different versions. I'm super inspired by his imagination, what he's doing. He's known for his viral Ted Talk on finding your why, and his groundbreaking insights on leadership. Simon's ideas have reached millions. As a bestselling author and founder of the Optimism Company, he's on a mission to help all of us think and act and communicate better.

In this conversation, he distills his journey into actionable insights on impactful leadership, the power of empathy, and the significance of authentic connections. His work challenges us to rethink modern leadership and shift from traditional success metrics to fostering a culture of service and infinite thinking.

It was an absolute joy to sit with Simon. I've known of his work for a long time, and I think that you're going to love what he has to say. I hope this conversation ignites passion within you. It challenges your thinking and inspires you towards a more optimistic and impactful world. So with that, let's dive right into this week's conversation with a deeply thoughtful Simon Sinek.

Simon, I am so stoked to have this conversation with you. You've taken complicated ideas, made them very simple to understand and provided a massive gift to millions. So thank you for coming in.

Simon Sinek (2:29)

Thank you, thanks for having me.

Michael Gervais (2:30)

We are recording this the day after the Super Bowl.

And I was nine seasons with the Seattle Seahawks and we actually had somebody come in to talk about the Infinite Game. I think he got nearly run out of the business or run out of the room. Like it didn't hang, right? It didn't work.

Simon Sinek (2:46)

Right.

Michael Gervais (2:47)

And so I think you'll have an idea of probably why because you've been doing obviously a bunch of work around it. But if you were in front of the 49ers today, the day after they lost in the Super Bowl, how would you have a conversation about the infinite game?

Simon Sinek (3:03)

Good coaches and good owners have a sense of what the infinite game is, right? Clearly the game is about winning and losing and you should play to win, of course.

But they all know what infinite game is because they talk about team building, you know? And they talk about off the field.

And so, I mean, that stuff is all infinite game. You talk about the quality of human being. You talk about camaraderie and teamwork. That's all infinite game stuff. And it all comes to bear on the day. So I think they have a sense of it. They just use different language for it.

Michael Gervais (3:37)

So inside of a sport franchise, you can have part of it be the infinite game and part of it be the finite game?

Simon Sinek (3:45)

Finite game, should we define the terms?

Michael Gervais (3:47)

Yeah, let's operationalize them.

Simon Sinek (3:48)

Should we start there? So let's define the terms. In the mid 1980s, a philosopher and theologian by the name of Dr. James Kars defined these two types of games, finite games and infinite games. A finite game is defined as known players, fixed rules and an agreed upon objective, football. If there's a winner, necessarily there has to be a loser or losers, but more important, there's always a beginning, a middle and an end.

Infinite games are defined as known and unknown players, which means you don't necessarily know who all the other players are.