Should Victims Be The Focus In Court?

**Meshel Laurie** (0:04)
This is Australian True Crime with Meshel Laurie. Some of our most memorable episodes have come about because listeners sent us their stories. Today's guest did just that. Her name is Sarah Lavis, and she woke up one night to the worst nightmare imaginable. She joins us to talk about it. This is Australian True Crime. We acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast is created. The Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung people of the Kulin Nation. And a warning, this episode of the podcast contains graphic descriptions of sexual violence.
Sarah, I wanted to start with reading out the email that you sent us, and I'll tell you why. Because it's the shortest and most impactful email I think I've ever received. It's like, it's so short. And yet, when you, by the end of it, you're like, whoa, that is full on. Hi, Michelle. Listening to your recent podcast, I found it interesting about the two camps of the courtroom being more victim centric versus not. So we talk about that a lot, obviously. You've noticed, you've picked up on that.
Because a lot of victims, victims' families say it's all about the offender and Charlie Bezina, our lovely friend, former homicide detective says he wishes that there were photos of the victims in the court so everyone could remember who it's really about. So that's the sort of, they're the conversations we've been having. Lex Lassery, our former high court judge says that's ridiculous, should never happen. So yeah, there's some pretty strong views. But you said, I thought I might have a unique perspective as someone who survived a stranger, stalker, rape and strangulation. As a victim, I wanted the court to be focused on the crime, the perpetrator and the evidence. I did not want the spotlight to be put on emotional aspects. I do understand that as a family member that has lost a loved one, they are solely focused on their person and getting justice. I believe having a picture of the victim could increase the emotion of loved ones and possibly be more distracting to the court.
I also think as victims and family members, I found the hardest and most confusing part of court to be around guilty pleas and downgraded charges. Yes, agreed. I wish true crime would put some explanation and focus on this to help people understand why sentencing is often so low.
Then you add this, I also had a cousin killed in a headbutt incident that left our family shocked and confused about the court process. As I say, such a short to the point email, but what massive.

**Sarah Lavis** (2:38)
I know a little bit controversial to what a lot of people think about the courtroom being more victim focused. I think I fall into the category of that makes me concerned that then are we moving into who's the perfect victim.
Like when you're starting to put photos there and you're starting to, like I know with your family member, you're always putting forward. They were in the prime of their life, they were this and that, but then don't we want justice? Also for the sex worker that's addicted to drugs on the street. I want her to get the same justice that I get. I find sometimes already in media, we have that if you are the perfect victim, if you come from the right family, if you look a certain way, that's my concern. Is that then going to sway the jury depending on how you look, how people represent you, what your family says about you, or if you are just the grumpy old man who lives down the street that has no family.
I think that once you start bringing more victim focused, then you're kind of starting to get into that territory that we're already in.

**Meshel Laurie** (3:50)
Interesting perspective.
Because most of us don't have any experience in the court either. So for most of us, it's an abstract, completely abstract conversation. So when someone says something, we think, oh yeah, that sounds right. And then someone says the opposite, oh yeah, that sounds right. But it takes a lived experience like yours, I think, to really make us think about it from your perspective, hopefully.

**Sarah Lavis** (4:15)
Yeah, because as a victim, the court's not about me.
I don't want it to be about me. I want it to be about the crime and the perpetrator. The more we go into victim territory, then the more the defense starts pulling victims apart, starts going through their life story. And then we as victims then have to defend ourselves more, which is what we've seen over and over again. I think it should be based on the perpetrator, and the crimes that they've committed, and everybody should be equal as a victim.