Shortcut: How Do We Keep Young People Out of the Justice System?

Meshel Laurie (0:03)

This is Australian True Crime with Meshel Laurie. Abraham Kuol spent the first seven years of his life in Kakuma Refugee Camp in Kenya before his family moved to Australia as refugees, a journey that would ultimately lead him to become a youth mentor, criminology researcher and community leader. Now Victoria's Young Australian of the Year for 2026, Abraham joins us to talk about youth crime, early intervention and what we can do to keep vulnerable young people out of the justice system.

This is Australian True Crime. We acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast is created, the Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung people of the Kulin Nation.

Abraham Kuol (0:46)

Kakuma is like a refugee camp in the northern western part of Kenya. It's been around since like the 80s. My family didn't arrive there till the 90s, then I was born like in the late 90s.

Meshel Laurie (0:57)

So where were your family from if they ended up in that camp?

Abraham Kuol (1:00)

My family was from South Sudan, but like to Sudan at the time, now Sudan has gained its, South Sudan has gained its own independence. So a lot of people were displaced in like neighboring countries like Uganda, Ethiopia, Kenya. Imagine as a young kid having never been settled in your life yet.

Even though we were coming to Australia, it still didn't feel like we were settled, still felt like we had to earn our place here. Of course. To be honest, it felt like we were starting from a lower position than we were when we were in the refugee camp. In the refugee camp, I think everybody's in shared suffering and through shared suffering, there's a sense of belonging that you find and a sense of community that you find. I think Australia is a very different country in that there's so much opportunity and doors can open. But if you don't know how the system operates, you don't know how to navigate the system, it almost feels like you're shut out of the system and you're trying to find your way in. It's not even the idea of picking up a new language. I think it's, what are your priorities at this point? For a lot of the parents is, I need to get a job immediately, the rent is going to start coming in, all these school expenses are going to start coming in for the kids.

I don't think that parents get a long period to adapt to Australia as a country. I think they have to jump straight into it.

Meshel Laurie (2:16)

I'm really interested in your work. You are studying criminology.

What a fascinating position you're in. Culturally, we're in this place where a lot of big media outlets love to demonize young Sudanese men. Now, you are a young Sudanese man and you are studying criminology. What a fascinating perspective you must have on all of this.

Abraham Kuol (2:37)

I grew up in Kakuma. My experience was very different to a lot of the young people growing up here in Australia.

Increasingly, a lot of the crimes being committed are from young people born in Australia, and it's for a whole host of different reasons.

Meshel Laurie (2:51)

But anecdotally, do you think young Sudanese boys will struggle because of conceptions, ideas about them in Melbourne, let's say?

Abraham Kuol (3:02)

I think when I first came here, a little bit different. I think now the way that we view young South Sudanese men has definitely changed. I think for me personally, it's not a challenge that I had, but it's a challenge that I do see a lot of young South Sudanese men have, and increasingly more so.

Meshel Laurie (3:20)

And as an outsider, then it seemed to me that it left them as easy pickings for crime gangs to use them to do crimes, to hire young Sudanese men because they can't get employment, they want money like every other teenager, then they might feel like this is an option for them. Is that real?

Abraham Kuol (3:39)

Yeah, I guess like it all comes down to belonging and wanting to feel a part of the society that you're in. And that could be feeling a part of the society through employment, that could be feeling a part of the society through sport, through education.

And that job is really fascinating in that it can change and shift your whole perspective. It could actually change your whole life. I remember when I started working, I started working when I was 16 My first job was actually KFC. And I really enjoyed that process.

I remember I wrote my teachers into it at school as well. I was like, can you help me prepare for mock interviews and get set up? And with my parents as well, I could show them my outfit and what I was going to do. So I think that period is really exciting for a kid, like getting your first job. And if your first experience, getting your first job is extremely negative in that, maybe you don't get a job or maybe you don't get the support that you need. It can turn you away from the idea of just, I don't know, just participating in society. I guess from like most young people, you adopt the identity that is either you're exposed to or the identity that's placed onto you. If all you're seeing about the people from your community is negativity or before you even become who you're supposed to become, somebody's already identified who you should be. And if you've already got a fractured identity or you're experiencing a dual identity or you're conflicted about who you are more generally, you get to that point when you're in your early teenage years, everybody's going through puberty, everybody's trying to understand who they are.