Shortcut: A Judge’s Perspective on Murder Trials

**Meshel Laurie** (0:02)
This is Australian True Crime with Meshel Laurie.
Our guest today is Lex Lasry, one of Australia's most respected lawyers and a former justice of the Supreme Court of Victoria, who spent nearly two decades presiding over some of the state's most significant murder trials. Now retired, Lex has launched a podcast. It's called Law The Podcast with Greg Barnes, where they unpack the legal issues behind the biggest stories making headlines. This is Australian True Crime. We acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast is created, the Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung people of the Kulin Nation. And a warning, this episode of the podcast contains graphic descriptions of violence.
Lex Lasry, formerly of the legal profession, Yes. Newly of show business.

**Lex Lasry** (0:54)
What a great description. 34 years the bar, it's enough.

**Meshel Laurie** (0:58)
It's a lot.

**Lex Lasry** (0:58)
It's enough. And I'm just tired of dealing with other people's tragedies and conflicts. So it's good not having to do that.

**Meshel Laurie** (1:06)
Yeah, that is a lot, isn't it? That is every day at work is, pretty much every day is someone else's tragedy.

**Lex Lasry** (1:12)
Yeah. Well, I mean, in the Supreme Court, for me, it was mostly somebody else's death in one form or another. And it is for the other. I mean, it's not just me. So all judges are the same and I'd had enough.

**Meshel Laurie** (1:23)
What do you think your legacy will be? What were you saying about, in years to come?

**Lex Lasry** (1:28)
He became a podcaster.

**Meshel Laurie** (1:28)
Yes, that's true. And then he became a podcaster and he's a superstar.
What do you think your legacy will be in legal circles?

**Lex Lasry** (1:37)
If I had to guess without being egotistical about it, probably I would guess that it is that I fought pretty hard in death penalty cases and fought hard in public against the death penalty in other countries.

**Meshel Laurie** (1:47)
Yeah.

**Lex Lasry** (1:48)
I think, and there are other people who've done that and more, but probably that's, if anyone remembers me for anything, it'll probably be for that.

**Meshel Laurie** (1:56)
I think it is.

**Lex Lasry** (1:56)
Van Nuen and so on.

**Meshel Laurie** (1:57)
Yeah, it is pretty memorable because obviously you had a day job. You were busy. It's not like you were looking for a hobby.

**Lex Lasry** (2:02)
No, and it wasn't much of a hobby.

**Meshel Laurie** (2:04)
No.

**Lex Lasry** (2:04)
We lost. He was executed. So it was tough.

**Meshel Laurie** (2:08)
And also talk to us as someone who has seen, frankly, some of the worst of humanity. Why do you still say, let's say you've seen Farquharson, you've seen people who a lot of us would say, shoot him. A lot of us would say, I hate this person. He's a malfunctioning human being. Why should he be allowed to live when he's murdered his three children, for example? That's one example. But you've seen hundreds of them.
So why are you, of all people, so passionately saying it is never appropriate to kill someone on behalf of the state?

**Lex Lasry** (2:39)
Because I'm concerned about the civilization of our community. And if you drop to the level of criminal by killing the accused, then in many senses, you know better.
We're better than that. We're better than that kind of revenge. Sentencing has to occur. Community is entitled to be protected against dangerous people. But there are all sorts of other things about sentencing that can have a beneficial effect. But to kill someone is just to reduce the community to that level.

**Meshel Laurie** (3:08)
We've talked sentencing. I've asked you questions about sentencing before because there's a constant push and pull about too much, too little.
I'm always complaining about the length of sentencing for sex crimes. And I have learned a lot just from talking to you about, you know, the legislation, the way that your hands are tied to a certain degree and all those things. But most, I guess, informative for me was just thinking about having an offender in front of you, particularly a young person, and considering putting them in jail for a really long time and the difficulty of that.

**Lex Lasry** (3:41)
Yeah, or worse, knowing you have to. Knowing that there isn't a great deal of choice.
Yeah, it is difficult. And as I think I'll probably discuss with you before, we have this process in sentencing where the judge looks the offender or the accused in the eye, who's sitting in the dock, and speaks to them directly. It's not that easy.

**Meshel Laurie** (4:01)