Shapers and Founders: Understanding the owner mindset

Jennifer Chiang (0:04)

Welcome to this special three-part series of the Future of Asia Podcast, exploring Shapers and Founders, a new book coming this September. Drawing on extensive research and conversations with some of Asia's most extraordinary owner-CEOs, this book explores two fundamental questions. Who are these leaders and how do they operate? It examines how founders are shaped by key influences, from history and philosophy to international exposure, and identifies the defining traits that unite them all. More importantly, this book distills leadership behaviors and mindsets behind their success and the lessons they offer leaders everywhere. Across three episodes, you will hear from each of the book's authors as they bring these ideas and stories to life. Join us.

Hello, everyone. Welcome to the McKinsey Future of Asia Podcast. My name is Jennifer Chiang. Based in the Taipei office, I'm the co-director for the McKinsey Center for CEO Excellence, and also a core part of the book team.

In this episode, I am speaking to Joydeep Sengupta, one of the co-authors of Shapers and Founders, The Untold Stories of Asia's Owner-CEOs. Joydeep is the founder for the McKinsey Center for CEO Excellence. Welcome, Joydeep.

Joydeep Sengupta (1:26)

Thank you, Jen. It's a delight to be here.

Jennifer Chiang (1:28)

Well, let me start off with one question, and it's a big one. Which findings were the most remarkable to you and have stayed with you long after you left the interview?

Joydeep Sengupta (1:38)

It's a great question, Jen, and also a very difficult one to answer because there are so many new and exciting things that we learned coming out of these interviews. But the two things which struck me, I think, one is just trying to understand who these founders are, right? The behaviors and mindsets were very interesting, no doubt. But who they are and the traits that they demonstrate were the ones which were really, really interesting for me. I think if I reflect on what they are, things like their ability to hold contradictory thoughts at the same time, many contradictory thoughts at the same time, yet with great degree of equanimity and calmness, I think that's one.

The boundless energy that they have, right? I mean, it's incredible how much energy these folks have, right? And it's so infectious, right? That was another. I think if you think about the curiosity and the learning mindset, they're continuously learning, continuously looking for new ideas, continuously looking for things that they don't know. And the humbleness with which they do that was quite extraordinary.

I found just that decisiveness, you know, and it's not decisiveness born out of instinct or I need to make a decision, but well considered, well thought through. But once they've kind of done the research, ability to make a decision and move forward, I think that was quite remarkable. And finally, just the relationships that they value and they hold. And I found this understanding of what makes these individuals so exciting and so interesting to learn.

Jennifer Chiang (3:12)

Exactly. And Joydeep, I had the privilege of also being in part some of these interviews. And the one thing that really struck me was also, and I think you mentioned as well, which is the childhood experiences and the different histories and philosophies of both East and West actually. And I would just love to kind of hear your reflections around some of the anecdotes and childhood stories that really stood out to you.

Joydeep Sengupta (3:36)

Yeah. So it's very interesting, right? So I described these traits.

And then it was very intriguing as to what made you develop these traits, right? And it goes back to what you were saying, which is, I think there are three really different pieces, if you may. I think the first is the philosophy, right? Which is so ingrained in the culture, you know? And these are not new philosophies. These are 2000, 2500 year old philosophies. And we saw that consistently across markets. We saw that in China, whether it was Confucian, Daoism. We saw that in India, whether it was to the Gita or the Arthashastra. We saw that in the Buddhist culture in Thailand. We saw that in Japan. We saw that in Korea. Pretty much across markets, we could see that. And that philosophy was not general, but it was about ways of operating, ways of behaving, the value of family, the value of state. You know, just each of these elements, you could see the glimpses of that in many aspects of these traits that I described. The second thing which, you know, we always talk about these founders is, you know, they are quite extraordinary. They have boundless energy, but they have one quality, which is extraordinary hunger. And the hunger to do good, not just for themselves, but the countries and the environments in which they are operating and be successful in that. And a lot of that we discovered was driven by the fact that they come from countries which went through either occupation or it went through difficult periods during the war. And there was a real scarcity, scarcity of money, scarcity of resources. And this scarcity mindset, I think, created the drive and the hunger, right?