Seth Godin: Lead With Purpose, Create With Intention, and Inspire Change

Seth Godin (0:01)

What is the change you seek to make?

This interaction, the reason you showed up to it, what is the change you seek to make? I will do a job I am proud of, but I will not judge myself by the way they are judging me. I want people to realize what a miracle this moment in time is, and to stop squabbling, to stop squabbling with each other, and to stop squabbling with themselves.

Michael Gervais (0:29)

Welcome back or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I am your host, Dr. Michael Gervais, by trade and training, a high-performance psychologist. I am so stoked to introduce our guest today, Seth Godin, a man who's well-known as a marketing genius. For decades, he's built his reputation as a renowned author, entrepreneur, and thought leader who is celebrated for his groundbreaking insights into leadership and creativity. Yet, he describes himself as a teacher and someone who does projects. And he describes his purpose as turning the lights on for others so that they can create change.

Seth has authored over 20 international bestsellers, including Purple Cow, The Dip, and his latest, The Song of Significance, a new manifesto for teams. His books have been translated into over 38 languages and are reshaping how we perceive marketing, leadership, and meaningful work. What makes Seth remarkable is his willingness to challenge the status quo and to say what we need to hear. Grounded in deep thought and experience, Seth engages in conversations that push boundaries to inspire us towards deep reflection. Our conversation is an enlightening and transformative experience in meta awareness. And this conversation is about leadership and meaningful work that demonstrates leadership and meaningful work.

So with that, let's jump right into this week's conversation with Seth Godin.

Seth, welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I am so stoked to sit down with you. But before we jump in, just want to ask and see how you're doing. Like, how are you?

Seth Godin (2:21)

I'm really good. Thank you for asking. And I was told if I came here, I would find some mastery. So bring it on, I'm ready.

Michael Gervais (2:28)

Yeah, that's good.

Seth Godin (2:29)

Okay, good.

Michael Gervais (2:29)

Maybe just before we dive into the mastery piece, let's just start with a bit of a state of the union. You know, you are known as a marketing genius. You've been writing and teaching and speaking about business and creativity for decades. And so with that in mind, we're just kicking off 2024 What is your personal state of the union right now on leadership and teamwork and the way that you're designing your life? Three part question.

Seth Godin (2:54)

Okay, well, so I'm obligated by the FCC to point out that marketing isn't what most people think it is. It's not podcast ads or interrupting people or spamming them or hyping. It's not promotion and getting the word out. That's what marketing used to be. They used to be advertising.

What my work has been about is telling and living true stories that engage with people and spread, stories that make a change happen that we're proud of. And because I wrote the books, I get to decide what marketing is, and that's what I decided it is. So with that said, when we think about any period of time, call it a new year if you want, the ideas of leadership and teamwork, of making a difference, these are marketing choices. Because every time we open our mouths, every time we type something, talk to someone, connect in any way, we're doing it to make a change happen. If we're not here to make a change, why are we wasting other people's time?

And too often we get seduced or indoctrinated into thinking that our job is to do our job. And I don't think that's really the work. The work is to be clear about who we're here to change, what we're trying to change and how we're gonna do it together. So that's been the narrative of my life for a bunch of years and it's not changing right now.

Michael Gervais (4:18)

Okay, State of the Union then is consistent. And when you think about leadership, how do you think about leadership?

Seth Godin (4:28)

So a lot of people are confused by leadership versus management. They think that managers lead and leaders manage. They're totally different activities. Sometimes one person does both, but lots of times not. Leadership is a voluntary activity in which someone decides to speak up, to make a change happen, and to ask for folks to follow them.

Management is based on authority. There's an org chart. You need to do this because I said so, and I am the manager and you work for me. Now we need managers, otherwise fast food places would fall apart and no one would show up for their shift. And we also need leaders. But just because someone anointed you as a manager doesn't mean you're automatically a leader.