Scottish Supernatural Beliefs: witches, ghosts and fairies in the early modern period

Greg Jenner (0:04)

Hello, and welcome to You're Dead to Me, with a Radio 4 comedy podcast that takes history seriously. My name is Greg Jenner. I'm a public historian, author, and broadcaster. And today, we are donning our fairy wings, rereading our copy of Daemonologie, and heading north to learn about supernatural beliefs in early modern Scotland. And to help us sift through the facts and the folklore, we have two very special guests. In History Corner, and also Orkney Corner, she's a research associate at the University of Cambridge, where she researches the history of memory. She's also an expert in British supernatural beliefs in the early modern period, and you may have read her wonderful book, Ghosts in Enlightenment Scotland. It's Dr. Martha McGill. Welcome, Martha.

Martha McGill (0:43)

Thank you very much, Greg. I'm delighted to be here.

Greg Jenner (0:45)

Very excited to have you in. And in Comedy Corner, and Shetland Corner, she's an award-winning comedian, actor, and storyteller. You might have seen her sell out Edinburgh shows. You may have caught her on Breaking the News, or Rosie Jones's Disability Comedy Extravaganza, or her new Radio 4 show, Human Watch. You'll definitely remember her, of course, from our episodes on Robert Bruce, not Robert the Bruce, and our episode on the Epic of Gilgamesh, and of course, our live tour about Alexander the Great. It's the wonderful Marjolein Robertson. Welcome back, Marjolein. Hi.

Marjolein Robertson (1:13)

Thanks for having me back.

Greg Jenner (1:14)

It's always a pleasure to have you in. And we've done Scottish history together before, but I think we're on your territory today.

Marjolein Robertson (1:20)

Yes, yes. I call it Shetland and Orkney history.

Greg Jenner (1:25)

I mean, the folk tale thing is what I'm thinking. You are, you know, I've seen your shows live. I've seen you doing work at Progress Star. You love to tell a story and often they're drawn from folklore.

Marjolein Robertson (1:35)

Yeah. And I think being raised in Shetland folklore is kind of how you are explained to look after yourself in the outside world. It's quite nice.

Greg Jenner (1:42)

So they're functional.

Marjolein Robertson (1:43)

Yeah. Always was told Trawi stories as a child for being safe up in the hills or Njogl stories by the water to be safe by the burden. So excited about it today.

Greg Jenner (1:55)

So what do you know?

This is where I have a go at guessing what you, our lovely listener or viewer, hello, might know about today's subjects. And I imagine you're all immediately thinking of the Loch Ness Monster. Well, we're not talking about that today, sorry.

Maybe you're picturing haunted castles and graveyards or perhaps even infamous Scottish witch trials and King James VI's obsessive crusade against black magic. But what supernatural entities did people actually believe in? Is Scotland really more haunted than the rest of Britain? And what's the best way to scare a man into marrying you? Let's find out. Right. Marjolein, today we're talking about the 16th to the 18th centuries. Do you know much about Scotland in this period? I'm guessing you do.

Marjolein Robertson (2:40)

I know a lot about Shetland in this period.

And it's kind of turbulent times because we've been given over to Scotland in 1469 So we're kind of, and for the first couple of 150 years or so, we were relatively left our own devices in Vartney. But then from about 1600, Scotland just starts meddling. They do. They don't want to admit it, but they do.

Greg Jenner (3:04)

Okay. I mean, Martha, I mean, this is a period in Scottish history, which is pretty turbulent for numerous reasons. Can you sort of guide us through some of the tumult?

Martha McGill (3:12)

Oh, absolutely.

Greg Jenner (3:13)

Yeah.

Martha McGill (3:13)

There's a lot of political chaos in the 16th century. You've got periods of warfare with England. You have a series of child monarchs, which creates political instability. Getting up to 1603, you have the Union of Crowns, when Scotland, England and Ireland are joined into one kingdom.

And later on in the 17th century, a couple of revolutions, periods of invasion and occupation by the forces of Oliver Cromwell, the beginnings of the Jacobite Rebellion towards the end of the 17th century. Those continue into the 18th century. And in 1707, you also have Parliamentary Union between Scotland and England, when Scotland loses its independent parliament. So it's a period of a lot of seismic changes in one way or another.

Greg Jenner (3:55)

It's a lot of history just crammed into those 200 years, isn't it?

Martha McGill (3:58)

Absolutely.

Greg Jenner (3:59)

Civil wars, change of kings, you know, and we get, you know, obviously religious changes too, which we perhaps we'll touch on later. Let's talk about culture then in this period in terms of the reformation and how people believe or identify at this time.