Scott Norton - Seek to Learn That Which Cannot be Taught

**Patrick O'Shaughnessy** (0:00)
This podcast is sponsored by CFA Institute, the Global Association of Investment Professionals, whose mission is to lead the investment profession by promoting the highest standards of ethics, education and professional excellence for the ultimate benefit of society. CFA Institute serves a global community of investment professionals, working to build an investment industry where investors' interests come first, financial markets function at their best, and economies grow. The Chartered Financial Analyst credential is the most respected and recognized investment management designation in the world.
The views expressed in this podcast do not necessarily represent the views of CFA Institute.
Hello and welcome everyone. I'm Patrick O'Shaughnessy and this is Invest Like the Best. This show is an open-ended exploration of markets, ideas, methods, stories, and of strategies that will help you better invest both your time and your money. You can learn more and stay up to date at investorfieldguide.com.

**SPEAKER_2** (0:59)
Patrick O'Shaughnessy is a principal and portfolio manager at O'Shaughnessy Asset Management. All opinions expressed by Patrick and podcast guests are solely their own opinions and do not reflect the opinion of O'Shaughnessy Asset Management. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions. Clients of O'Shaughnessy Asset Management may maintain positions in the securities discussed in this podcast.

**Patrick O'Shaughnessy** (1:21)
If you told me a year ago that I'd be learning critical life and business lessons from the founder of a ketchup company and that 30,000 to 50,000 people would listen to our conversation, well, I'd have told you that's impossible. But the fact that it's true proves many of the points laid out by this week's guest, Scott Norton, co-founder of Sir Kensington's, which was recently acquired by Uni-Lever. Sir Kensington's, which makes, quote, condiments with character is no ordinary ketchup company and Scott is no ordinary founder. We talk about the most elemental aspects of business, product, relationships, sales, marketing, and culture. I love that we can do so through the lens of such a seemingly simple product, something that we all use all the time with our families at a barbecue. Scott's observations on culture, the importance of relationships within sales, and competitive edge are all memorable. But above all, I'll remember his line, seek to learn that which cannot be taught. And I will continually return to the mental image of the Temple of Poseidon.
Oh, and as a bonus, we also talk about biking around Asia, which, like all of Scott's stories, comes complete with thought-provoking lessons. Enjoy this unique conversation with one of the most interesting people I've met on this journey. We begin with the history of ketchup.
I realize I don't know anything about the history of ketchup other than it's ubiquitous and you grew up with it, but where did it start and what was the, maybe one of your kind of favorite aspects of the story?

**Scott Norton** (2:43)
Well, it's a wonderful question because I love the history of ketchup because it's one of those kinds of things where we take America for granted in a lot of ways.
And we think things are American, but we're a melting pot of a country. We're a very diverse country. Ketchup is actually a Chinese word.
It comes from the Southern Min dialect of what is now Fujian province in China. And ketchup was originally a fermented fish sauce that was used to put on things like tofu and rice that didn't carry much flavor. Of course, back in the day, meat was rotting, all these kinds of things weren't fresh, so you needed powerful flavors to cover it up. That's why pepper, allspice, clove, these things were so coveted by the Europeans. The British and the Dutch that were traders in Canton, in the South China Sea, in Malaysia, in Indonesia, they discovered this sauce, ketchup, this fermented fish sauce. They were like, this stuff is great. So they brought the concept back to England, and they started using other ingredients that were high in glutamate other than fermented fish like oysters and mushrooms. Glutamate, by the way, is what creates the savory flavor. It's what gives the meat sensation. If you've ever bit into a perfectly roasted portobello mushroom, that's great flavor of umami. Around the same time, this is about 400, 500 years ago, Hernan Cortes, the Spanish explorer, discovers new to the Europeans the tomato. Outside of the capital of what is now Mexico, Mexico City, tomatoes came in all sizes from tiny little berries to the giant ones that we know today, the heirloom varieties that the Mayans would revere.
He brought that back to Spain. That then trickled into Italian cuisine, which of course gave to red sauce pasta, which is a relatively new thing in Italy and in Europe. At some point, and this is where it gets hazy, at some point, either in Europe or America, somebody said, let's make ketchup with tomatoes and birthed this tomato ketchup that we all know today. It then started showing up in prairie cookbooks in America in the early 1800s and then over time, it became something that became part of American food culture, became part of fast food, the hamburger, the french fry, things like that.