“Run it up the Flagpole...” Utah Considers a New State Flag (Season 3, Ep. 7)

**Brad Westwood** (0:10)
Welcome to the podcast Speak Your Piece. This is a podcast about Utah's history produced by the Utah Department of Culture and Community Engagement. I'm Brad Westwood, Senior Public Historian. My job is to make the very best, the most interesting, the most accurate history about Utah accessible to the widest audience. If there's one place, one podcast to get your Utah history fix, I hope this is the place. If you subscribed to this podcast or this is your first time listening, I hope you'll go back and listen to the dozens of other prior episodes. Please also rate and review Speak Your Piece on iTunes, Google, and elsewhere.
Today on Speak Your Piece, we'll be discussing Utah state flag and the possibility of Utah getting a new flag. During the 2021 Utah legislative session, Senate Bill 48 passed, sponsored by Senator Daniel McCay and Representative Stephen Handy, both of whom are with me today. This created a state flag task force. On June 14th, Flag Day, just a few days ago, Governor Spencer Cox announced that he would initially serve as the task force chair, along with Lieutenant Governor Deidre Henderson, with three state senators and three state representatives, including Executive Director Jill Remington Love of the Department of Culture & Community Engagement, who sponsors this podcast.
The goal of this task force is to, quote, give every Utahan the opportunity to shape the principles and the symbolism of this new flag. The Governor's press release continues, this engagement is important to ensure the dynamic new state flag.
With me today are three guests, here to discuss the possibility of Utah getting a new flag. First, rare photographs and book dealer and political historian, Ron Fox. Utah Representative Stephen G. Handy of Layton, representing Utah's 16th Legislative House District, and State Senator Dan McCay of Riverton, representing Utah Senate District 11
Representative Handy and Senator McCay sponsored the bill to consider this new flag. Now, more details on the biographies of our guests will be included on the show notes today. Good morning, Ron. Good morning, Steve. Good morning, Dan.

**Stephen Handy** (2:40)
Good morning.

**Daniel McCay** (2:41)
Good morning, everybody.

**Stephen Handy** (2:42)
Happy to be here.

**Brad Westwood** (2:43)
It's so glad to have you.
The study of the world of flags and banners, both historically and in the contemporary world, is called vexiology. Those who study flags and banners are vexologists.
The root of the word is a Latin word for banner. As simple as it might seem, flags, which are typically geometric pieces of fabric, hoisted or hung high in the air, are packed full of meaning, symbolism, signaling, devices, and messaging. From the ancient world to medieval heraldic symbols to boat and ships on the high sea, where they tell you where they're from and where they belong, to the modern world of nation states, then states, counties, cities, all types of organizations, even families and individuals, have flags. There is a whole lot of meaning and representation in these rectangular pieces of fabric. A flag design, which is applied to all kinds of materials and media, can be and have been studied politically, historically, psychologically, and even scientifically. As with all fields of endeavors, there is the weight of tradition that has developed, design and message principles defined, rules and goals proffered. We will link on the show notes some of the documents and sites that speak to this fascinating field of flag history and the creation of flags, and we will also offer links about the history of our current flag, which was designed and legislatively approved in 1913 and updated in 1911 Is that correct, Ron?

**Ronald Fox** (4:22)
2011

**Stephen Handy** (4:23)
2011

**Brad Westwood** (4:24)
2011 Thank you.
First question, friends. Representative Handy and Senator McCay, what does your bill say? What will be the process? And who will make the final decision on this proposed new state flag? And how can Utah citizens get engaged in this decision?

**Daniel McCay** (4:44)
You know, it's a great question. Thank you for having us on the show today. We're excited to be here.
You know, SB 48 is probably the third iteration of the flag bill. And in some ways, you know, it has an SB number, right? And there's always some pride of authorship of history of those kind of components. But I am solidly resting on the giant shoulders of Representative Handy, who started this conversation years ago.
And honestly, I could speak to the process.
And maybe we'll let Representative Handy do that. But you know, when he first when he first brought it up, I said, boy, what a what a terrible idea that is, we're not going to waste time, money or effort on that terrible idea. And I'm pretty sure I was really glad when the bill did not pass initially.