Robots Will Fight the Next War | Mike LeBlanc | Ep. 475

Mike LeBlanc (0:01)

Okay, got to whiff smoke.

Andy Stumpf (0:04)

Gun run, north and south, west of the smoke, west of the smoke. Okay, copy, west of the smoke, I'm looking at danger close now.

Mike LeBlanc (0:13)

I'm all in it, man, they give it to me, I made it. Get Cleared Hot.

Andy Stumpf (0:17)

Copy, Cleared Hot. I mean, I don't know your thoughts, but what year did you get out?

Mike LeBlanc (0:23)

I got out of Active in 2017, and then out of the Reserves in 23

Andy Stumpf (0:29)

So in 17 when you got out, so I got out in 13, the last day of June, 2013 I had never, when I heard the term drone, so Predator Reaper, that's it. I never thought for a second, a weaponized essentially DJI drone, even though I know that's not exactly what's being used in Ukraine, but it's a good metaphor, let alone humanoid type robots.

What was the military in 17, so four years later, were they looking at drone stuff yet? Because I feel like Ukraine kicking off really lateraled some attention to, oh, this is wild.

Mike LeBlanc (1:02)

Yeah, we still had ScanEagle, Ben, do you remember that one? So the ScanEagle was still there.

Andy Stumpf (1:08)

I remember watching those things crash.

Mike LeBlanc (1:10)

You'd watch it, it was like looking through like a toilet paper roll. But yeah, those things were still out there in 17 That was like the standard that we were still training on.

I still had them, that I was signing on for, training Marines for ScanEagle.

Andy Stumpf (1:24)

The wildest thing for me when I think about Ukraine is it seems to be at the front-leaning edge of technology and also trench warfare at the same time.

Mike LeBlanc (1:32)

Yes.

Andy Stumpf (1:33)

It's like the 1940s is meeting the year 3000

Mike LeBlanc (1:39)

Yeah.

Andy Stumpf (1:39)

And I guess I had never thought that those two types of warfare would coexist in the same battle space.

Mike LeBlanc (1:46)

It's interesting to see. So I've gotten to go to the front lines in Ukraine.

And they're really interesting how they're set up on the front lines because they're these stronghold positions. They're not actually, it's not actually like a line as much as it is these disparate centers.

Andy Stumpf (2:05)

Is it just open terrain in between them?

Mike LeBlanc (2:07)

Yep. With roads, with, you know, it's like kind of desert looking.

Andy Stumpf (2:10)

Yeah.

Mike LeBlanc (2:11)

And you'll look up and see, when you look at the drones, they've all got big cords coming from them.

Andy Stumpf (2:15)

The command wires.

Mike LeBlanc (2:16)

You see that? That's crazy to see. I was like...

Andy Stumpf (2:18)

The crazier thing to see is the fields of that fiber-octave cable. When the sun catches them at the right angle, you're sitting there like, first off, semi-awesome, but that's a huge gear adrift problem. Somebody's going to have to go pick that up.

Mike LeBlanc (2:30)

It's crazy. You know, I know, I always do think about, you know, poor Marine that would like to lose his NVGs though. This one, if you lose that drone, you get to just command cord it right back and go find it.

Andy Stumpf (2:40)

But your command cord is seven kilometers long.

Mike LeBlanc (2:44)

But that is the thing, is like, seeing how they have that set up on the front lines, I'm not sure why they have the humans there. There's a big initiative to get all the humans off of the front line. Funny thing about front lines is somebody's always going to be the front line.

Andy Stumpf (2:58)

What is the argument on either side of that for keeping them there and removing them? Is it keeping them there because, hey, it worked yesterday, so we're just going to keep doing this, and that's what we've always done?

Mike LeBlanc (3:08)

I think it's kind of, you know, both forward observation and final protective fires. So you do want to say at the end of the day, you're like, this needs to work. We do need people that are like stopping you from coming to our mothers and wives and everybody that's in Keeve.

Andy Stumpf (3:23)

Hard agree.

Mike LeBlanc (3:24)

So they need that. The argument to get them off is, you know, today 75% of the deaths are from, on both sides are from drones.

You're seeing just robotics take over just about every operation. And the people that are commanding them are not in those front centers. The people that are controlling them are in offices and things. When you go back in the city, they're random. You know, you go into these places and there's a bunch of people on computers.