Robert Greene: The Unwritten Laws of Great Writing | How I Write

David Perell (0:00)

Robert Greene's on the show today, who's famous for writing books like The 50th Law and 48 Laws of Power. So how does he write books that so many people want to read? How has he written books that are so compelling that people literally want to steal them? Well, we talk about that in this conversation. What I admire so much about Robert, the reason I love spending time with him, is that he's been devoted to this craft of writing for decades, and you can feel it in his presence. He's labored and labored, and now he's out with a new book called Sublime. He wrote it after having a stroke and basically being paralyzed with the right side of his body. And I'm telling you, this book is his magnum opus. It is a departure from the standard Robert Greene fare and into something new, into the transcendent, into the supernatural, trying to describe the indescribable.

This conversation is beautiful, it's deep, and I think you're going to like it.

So you brought a notebook.

Robert Greene (0:56)

Yeah, I did. So my process was kind of crazy and I wouldn't recommend it for anybody. So this is how not to write a book.

But essentially, because I had a stroke, I couldn't type. So I had to handwrite the entire book. And what I would do was I would take this style of notebook. They're all in this. I have about 100 of them for this book. And I would write the first versions of a chapter. Oh my goodness, my handwriting.

David Perell (1:31)

Can I show it on the camera?

Robert Greene (1:32)

Sure.

And this is every page is filled.

And I would write the first versions of the chapter, then take a second notebook, the same notebook, and rewrite it by hand. And you can't skip sentences because I'm trying to recreate the whole thing, edit the whole thing. So I had to, sometimes paragraphs would be the same, but I had to repeat them handwriting in this new notebook. And then I would go back to the first notebook and rewrite what was in the second notebook. And sometimes I would take sticky pads to kind of edit in that way. And so it just was unbelievably tedious and arduous. And at some points, I couldn't read my own handwriting. I couldn't figure out the sequence of paragraphs that I had. I had to kind of decipher what the hell was I thinking. You won't be able to read it.

David Perell (2:26)

I cannot decipher what's going on here. This is like Egyptian hieroglyphics. The people come after us. They'll look at this, and they'll say, wow, what language did they speak in 2026?

Robert Greene (2:39)

So I had to devise a method to compensate for my stroke.

And finally, after going back and forth between these mirror notebooks, I would transcribe it. I would dictate it through Whisper Transcription.

David Perell (2:57)

Whisper Flow?

Robert Greene (2:57)

Yeah, Whisper Flow.

David Perell (2:58)

They're the sponsor of the podcast.

Robert Greene (3:00)

Oh, hello, Whisper Flow.

David Perell (3:01)

Great product.

Robert Greene (3:02)

Yes, it is.

David Perell (3:03)

I was completely paid to say that, but I believe it.

Robert Greene (3:05)

It is, it is very good. I have very good experience. It's a great product. And I'm not bullshitting, because I actually had to do this for the entire book.

I would dictate it through Whisper, and then print it out on paper, and then edit the paper print out with my hand, and then dictate it again, and then edit it what's on the computer with one hand. You have no idea how difficult that was, but it was excruciating and exciting at the same time.

David Perell (3:34)

So this is the first book that you wrote fully after The Stroke.

Robert Greene (3:37)

Yes.

David Perell (3:38)

You're writing this book sublime, and you want to inhabit the emotion of whatever it is that you're writing about, but now you have A Stroke. So how does that change how you go about the writing?

Robert Greene (3:49)

Well, I have this theory that you can tell the way a book is written, the spirit of the author and what moods they were in. Some things are so dry and so boring and academic, but you can almost feel the author tuning out and looking at it from some weird distance. And I've always had to be very emotional about my books that I write. I have to like feel the spirit almost invade me and inhabit me of what I'm trying to write about. So human nature was just getting into the essence of what it means to be a human being as a social animal. And I had to go draw on all my experiences as a child and my whole life and all my social experiences. Here, I had intended to write the book 20 years ago. It was a project 20 years ago. It was supposed to be after my war book, and then I got derailed by the 50 Cent project, then Mastery and etc. And I intended to go through the Amazon jungle and swim with dolphins and go through the Gobi Desert and have sublime experiences and adventures. And in that mood, right in that elevated mood about things, I have my stroke.