Robert Greene on Power, Purpose, Struggle, and Love

Michael Gervais (0:00)

What does it mean to develop mastery of self and mastery of craft? That is a foundational question. Welcome back or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast where we dive into the minds of the world's greatest thinkers and doers. I am your host, Dr. Michael Gervais, by trade and training a high-performance psychologist. Today, I'm really excited to welcome back to the podcast one of the great minds of our time, Robert Greene. You probably know Robert as the author of some of the most influential books on human behavior, like the 48 Laws of Power, Mastery, and the Laws of Human Nature. Today, we go beyond the pages to dive into his unique approach to understanding self-discovery, mastery, and love, and how he's navigating his recovery from a major stroke in 2018 It is so inspiring. Robert's wisdom is practical, it's sharp, and it's transformative. In this conversation, he impacts some of the most important lessons from his life and his work. Lessons that can help us all better navigate the messy and exhilarating and windy adventure to becoming our best selves. So with that, let's dive into this week's conversation with the one and only Robert Greene.

Robert, I have been a student of your ideas and I love reading your books. Thank you for what you've introduced to the world and I'm honored to be here with you today.

Robert Greene (1:29)

Well, thank you for having me, Michael. My pleasure. I'm honored to be here. How long ago was it when we did this? I think it was like 10 years ago.

Michael Gervais (1:35)

Yeah. It was early days for me in the pod and it was a great conversation.

Robert Greene (1:41)

Yeah, I had a lot of fun.

Michael Gervais (1:43)

Yeah.

Robert Greene (1:44)

I still get feedback from people who listen to it. I'm friends with some of the people who listen to that interview who contacted me.

Michael Gervais (1:50)

Oh, really?

Robert Greene (1:50)

Over the years, yeah.

Michael Gervais (1:51)

Oh, great.

Robert Greene (1:52)

Like yoga instructors and people like that.

Michael Gervais (1:55)

Nice. Okay, good. Yeah. It's one of the, when I think back of like the ones that sing at the high table for me, definitely your conversation will be one of them.

Robert Greene (2:04)

Wow, that's great to know.

Michael Gervais (2:06)

Yeah.

Robert Greene (2:06)

Thank you.

Michael Gervais (2:07)

Well, I mean, our love affair with and our deep interest in mastery and the path of mastery, of course, you know, it's going to make for some magic. But the things I want to talk to you about today, I want to talk about mastery. I want to talk about power and I want to talk about love. Those would be the three things.

Robert Greene (2:26)

Yeah, pretty good subject. People might be interested in that.

Michael Gervais (2:29)

Yeah, good. So let's start at the top. One, thank you for the gift. This is an amazing, how many years?

Robert Greene (2:40)

It's for the 25th anniversary.

Michael Gervais (2:42)

25th anniversary of the 48 Laws of Power. So thank you for your special gift. And before we get to power, I do want to talk about Mastery. If we could start at the top about like, what is your working definition of Mastery?

Robert Greene (2:56)

Well, Mastery is a process, you know, and you have to love the process. You can't just be oriented towards the goal. Just think, I'm going to be so great. You have to enjoy the actual process of it. So I spell out that process in detail in the book. But the reason I wrote it is, when you reach that high level, which is the highest level of mastery, and I call it, you have an intuitive feel for it. The thing that you're studying is inside of you. If you're a football player, the field is inside your head, right? If you're a piano player, you've internalized it. That is such an awesome feeling. I've had moments of it like that in my work, in my writing. You reach this point where you don't have to think anymore, and ideas come to you. And so that is what our brain is designed for. We have this insane instrument, the human brain, certainly the most complex organism in the universe, as people say. The mathematical possibilities of connections in the brain are absolutely infinite. It is something that every day we should just wake up and marvel at this thing that we've been given, this insane tool. But people don't use it right. They don't know how to use it. They don't understand the insanity, the marvelousness of this instrument, right? So I wanted to show you that if you understand it, if you move with it, if you develop it in the right way, you can have these powers that are incredible. And the pleasure that you have when you reach that level, because it takes a lot of hours of work, a lot of drudgery, a lot of tedium, a lot of practice. But when you reach that level, you can't, it's hard to explain how joyous the feeling is that you have.