Rights for the Unborn: How Should We Protect Future Generations? (Sophie Howe)

Gabriel Gatehouse (0:08)

Hello and welcome to Radical, the show where we dig in to radical ideas and speak to the people who want to put them into practice. Last week we were talking about prepping for the future, with Mike Chappell, who's got his bug out plan and filled every cupboard space in his home with tinned food and bottled water in case of climate or societal breakdown. If you missed that episode, you can always catch up on BBC Sounds, but be warned, you might become radicalized. My wife listened last night and she's now searching for emergency water filtration systems online. This week, our guest is someone who's prepping for the future in a different way. Not for themselves or for their loved ones, but for people who don't yet exist. Let me explain. Once upon a time, during the sunlit optimism of the post-war years, people in this country and in many parts of Europe and America assumed that they could expect to be a little better off than their parents, and their children could expect to be a little better off than them. Hands up, who still believes that now?

Not too many, I guess. Somehow, somewhere around the end of history, faith in the inevitable march of prosperity and progress evaporated. Where did it go? And can it be resuscitated? What can we do to ensure that generations to come won't be cursing us in the future for the mess that we've left them, to focus on long-term rather than short-term thinking? This is the mission that was entrusted to Sophie Howe by the Welsh government in 2016, when she became the world's first future generations commissioner, a representative in government for the unborn.

So what did she achieve when she was in the job? What were the obstacles? And can we, should we, in a democracy, prioritise the well-being of the unborn over living citizens? As ever, we'll approach the subject with an open mind and a critical lens.

Sophie Howe, welcome to Radical.

Sophie Howe (2:10)

Thank you for having me.

Gabriel Gatehouse (2:12)

Before we get into the backstory of how you got there, just tell us what, in brief, is your Radical idea?

Sophie Howe (2:22)

My idea is that every country in the world and indeed every multilateral institution in the world should have someone who is holding that government, that institution to account on how they act for the interests of future generations.

Gabriel Gatehouse (2:37)

You were described as the government representative for the unborn, a tricky constituency.

Sophie Howe (2:44)

Yes. I mean, they don't talk to me an awful lot, the unborn. Maybe at some point we might find an AI that enables that to happen.

But essentially, the concept is that children don't have a voice in the decisions that people are making today in governments across the world, and future generations, those who are yet to be born, certainly don't have a voice, and yet the decisions that are being taken today will fundamentally affect the lives that they lead. So putting in place an institution, a commissioner, a person who has their interests in mind and can advocate in the here and now for their interests is really important if we're going to make sure that there's a planet that future generations are able to live on and able to thrive.

Gabriel Gatehouse (3:33)

Okay, well, we'll get into how you advocate for that, how you figure out what it is that you should be advocating for. But first, how did you get into this?

Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Sophie Howe (3:46)

So I grew up in Cardiff, in Wales, in a place called Ely, which was often in the headlines for the wrong reasons, high levels of worklessness, high levels of poverty, poor health, poor educational outcomes and so on. I grew up in the 80s under the Thatcher government. And I, however, went to school, not in the school that was a three times failing school at the end of my road, but instead to school in a more affluent area where my grandparents lived. What has really stuck with me throughout my career and the things that I'm passionate about is the difference in the life chances of the kids that I used to play with on the street versus the kids that I used to play with in the playground in school. So the level of resources they had, the aspirations they had, the access to different clubs and activities and so on.

Gabriel Gatehouse (4:39)

And that was immediately visible to you as a kid.

Sophie Howe (4:41)

Immediately visible. My parents were quite politically active. My dad was a trade unionist and so on. And I felt that there was a distinct unfairness about this. And I suppose that led me into pursuing a political career initially in local government. I was elected when I was 21