Rick Rubin: What Jay-Z Did in 30 Minutes Left Me Speechless!

Rick Rubin (0:00)

Jay-Z wrote in a way that no one else wrote. All the other rappers that I worked with spent a lot of time writing lyrics, and I never saw Jay write lyrics. And when I played him the beat for 99 Problems, he said, okay, just keep playing it over and over again. And he sat in the back of the room. You could hear him mumbling or humming. After 20 or 30 minutes, he's like, okay, I got it, ran into the other room and did the first verse. He did, let's say, three takes, and then he came in, he'd listen to them, he's like, oh yeah, I think the second one's good. It just happens in his mind.

Steven Bartlett (0:28)

And then this big list of people that you've worked with, I mean, it's just this unbelievable list, Jay-Z, Kanye, Adele, Justin Timberlake, and Mick Jagger and the Red Hot Chili Peppers. Why do you think these people call you?

Rick Rubin (0:39)

Because I've been making things for 40 years and I started making music as a hobby. It ended up picking on a life of its own and becoming a business. And that list, they're not special. I would say they're ordinary people who made a decision. I think of Eminem as a good example. Eminem is someone who's always writing because he wants to be the best he could possibly be and he's insanely obsessive about that.

Steven Bartlett (1:00)

It appears that some people are just like inherently more creative than others.

Rick Rubin (1:04)

Well, creativity is beaten out of us over the course of our lives. We go to school, we're thought to follow rules. The rules are not there to help us. The rules are there to control us. We're not taught to be free creative thinkers. So I'm suggesting we break free and express ourselves freely.

Steven Bartlett (1:21)

And how?

Rick Rubin (1:22)

Well, all of the best things involve risk. It's only through the risk that the greatness is shown. And so something needs to die. That lifestyle in that moment, that career path, that relationship, that's what needs to die.

Steven Bartlett (1:34)

Is there a step one in that direction for people that want to hit the reset button?

Rick Rubin (1:38)

Yeah. The first one I'll say is...

Steven Bartlett (1:41)

Your early thirties, you had a depressive episode yourself.

Rick Rubin (1:45)

Yeah. It was really a tough time. I felt like the rug had been pulled out from under me.

I started having panic attacks and couldn't sleep. It got really sick and it felt like I was shot with a poison arrow.

Steven Bartlett (1:57)

Take me into that part of your life.

Rick Rubin (1:59)

So...

Steven Bartlett (2:04)

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I'm going to start Rick where my curiosity is.

Rick Rubin (2:41)

Yes.

Steven Bartlett (2:41)

How do you sort of self-categorize or self-identify in terms of like your profession?

Rick Rubin (2:48)

I would say I'm involved in art and creativity.

Steven Bartlett (2:51)

What is your involvement in art and creativity?

Rick Rubin (2:53)

Might be as a coach. It might be as a collaborator. It might come up in a film project or it might come up in someone who has a startup who wants to talk about what are things.

Creative solutions and any problem that we have or anything we want to get better at. There's usually a creative path to improve or at least to test to see if there are other ways around. Often the accepted version of how to move forward is another limitation.

Steven Bartlett (3:31)

I'm very curious about your principles as it relates to finding the solution, whether that's in business or whether it's in music. I'm really interested in if there's any similarities in the process of finding a solution. Because I'm an entrepreneur, I guess I'm a podcaster as well. I do investments all day every day. I'm in the pursuit of a solution to a problem, a people problem, a creative problem.