Richie McCaw previews England vs New Zealand

Alfie Reynolds (0:15)

Welcome back to The Ruck, the journalists' rugby podcast from The Times and The Sunday Times as we head into the third week of November internationals and the biggest week from an England point of view. I'm Alfie Reynolds alongside Will Kelleher and Alex Lowe. We're back up at the England training base. This is the big one, isn't it lads? This is the one, Alex, that was circled in the calendar before a ball was kicked this November.

Alex Lowe (0:35)

For England, definitely. I think we all saw the Australia team likely to deliver the performance they did outside of the window, tired as they looked tired all autumn. Fiji delivered the performance I think we expected which was exciting, open, aggressive, attacking for an hour and then wouldn't be able to match England in the last 20 minutes, fitness, etc. This is the game that will define the autumn but I think is also a statement game for this Borthwick period with England. I think they've gone nine in a row, nine wins in a row. There is definite progress. If you look at where this England team were a year ago compared to where they are now, they were very close to beating the All Blacks three times. I think they can and should and maybe will beat them this weekend. Better team, better squad, better mindset, better everything. There's a lot of riding on it and I would hope that we get a real bouncing, fizzing Twickenham as well.

Will Kelleher (1:35)

I can't wait. We probably get a bit used to these weeks sometimes because we are lucky and we do a lot of them and we basically are there whenever England play. But I'm really, really looking forward to Saturday. Like England, New Zealand at Twickenham is a great fixture, isn't it? And it's not always a great game, but on, as you say, circling on the calendar, using the old school thing. I was thinking when you said that, is the modern equivalent like getting a notification off your time tree, maybe?

Alfie Reynolds (2:02)

Doesn't have the same ring to it, does it?

Will Kelleher (2:03)

No, not really. But it's just that thing of like, the best stuff in sport is when you're about to kick off whatever game it is, or have the first ball of a national's next Friday or something like that. And you go, I don't know what's going to happen. And this is going to be great. And I think that's what Saturday at 10 past three will be like. We'll have the Hucker, we'll have swing low, as usual, ringing around during it. And we'll all go, right? What have both of these teams got? And that's a great place to be in, isn't it?

Alex Lowe (2:28)

I think they're really even, so it's going to be wicked, yeah.

Alfie Reynolds (2:30)

Yeah, it's really funny who, depending on who you speak to in the England camp this week is, so I spoke to Ollie Chessam and Jamie George in the mixed zone after Fiji, and both of them straight away were like, All Blacks week, so exciting, there'll be a different intensity in training. Then on Tuesday, Freddie Stewart said the same thing. I think he said, it's almost an unspoken rule, but there it is different. And then Finn Baxter, maybe one of the younger lads kind of came in and gave me the party line, I suppose, of you.

Alex Lowe (2:54)

I think he, yeah, I don't think he felt senior enough to be able to say, but it's definitely, it's definitely being talked about in camp that this is a different week.

Will Kelleher (3:04)

But also we, I think we feel it too from our side, like, and I would think probably the wider public as well. People are aware that it's England, New Zealand on Saturday. It will be full. People will be tuning in to the telly at 10 past three. Whereas last weekend, it'd be like, oh, when's the game? The first week we talked about it maybe sneaking up on people. There's no sneaking up about an All Blacks game. Like people are aware it's coming and it's going to go off on Saturday. And that's great.

Alfie Reynolds (3:27)

And there's a reason the RFU can charge how much they do for tickets and the reason that they sell those tickets as well. The one thing though in terms of this game, gents, so Will on Saturday post-Fiji, your first thing was you feel England should beat New Zealand. And I think a lot of the talk this week has been along those lines. And the closer we've got to the game, the more uneasy I've felt about that. Because are we forgetting here that this is a New Zealand side, that second in the world? I agree with you, Alex, and I look at these two teams and I think they are so evenly matched.