RE-AIR Conversations: Powerful or Powerless, Caring or Careless? The Goddess Thetis w/ Maciej Paprocki

Maciej Paprocki (0:00)

Oh, hi there.

Liv Albert (0:00)

I'm just here to briefly interrupt your listening pleasure to remind you slash tell you slash scream it into the world that I have a new book out, and not only is it a new book, but it is a retelling of The Odyssey, and I'm so proud of it, and it's amazing. My Odyssey is aimed at children who are aged 9 to 12, but really it is just a simplified, but incredibly true to Homer, beautifully illustrated adaptation of The Odyssey. You can find The Odyssey, a Modern Retelling by me, Liv Albert, wherever you get your books.

Hi, listener. I am just here at the top to put a warning. I've been recording some introductions with the guests on the line, so we'll jump right into that in a second. But just a heads up, this episode, while being incredibly positive and really insightful into an ancient goddess, does feature pretty heavily in an assault narrative that is, I think, a particularly egregious case of assault of a woman in mythology. But it is also simultaneously a woman who then gets to say, fuck you, to the man. And so I think it's worth it if you could manage. We definitely don't go too graphic. It's still very mythology. But I wanted to warn you all right at the top.

Hello, this is Let's Talk About Myths, Baby! And I am your host, Liv, here recording introductions with the guest in front of me and trying not to be weird about it. And I am here today with returning guest, Dr. Maciej Paprocki, and I'm so excited for this conversation. You and I had a two-part conversation last time because I am so obsessed with the way you study mythology. So I'm so excited to talk to you today about Thetis. Thank you.

Maciej Paprocki (2:35)

And thank you as well. I'm so happy to be here with you again and to talk all things mythical.

Liv Albert (2:42)

You're one of my rare guests where you what you study is like so much like the myth itself versus, you know, all of those sort of surrounding aspects, which I love too. But like the insights in our first episode have stuck with me in a way that like not all of my episodes do. I love everyone. But but and then I this came up because I was doing this episode on Thetis. And you had been wonderful enough to give me a copy of the Thetis volume that you worked on with other people who've also been on my show, which is a thrill in itself. But then I got to your chapter and I was like trying to put it into this episode. And I was like, absolutely not. No, no, I can't. I need I need all of it, like from you and immediately sent you that email. So I'm really so excited for this.

So I don't even know quite how to begin it because I just am so obsessed with the idea, but like this article that you wrote for this Thetis volume, which I know you edited as well, so I'm sure you had lots of hands in it. But this particular article about how the rape of Thetis by Pelias, it's like it's kind of served to take away, I'm saying it poorly because I'm going to let you, but like take away a lot of that kind of original power that she had as a goddess. So how did you go about this? What do we know about Thetis like before that? She's such an interesting character. That's not really a great introductory question, but like take it away if I can be so bold.

Maciej Paprocki (4:16)

I'll try, I'll try because Thetis is, as you've said, a really fascinating character. And the thing about her, and I think about, we can say the same about many gods and goddesses, but about Thetis in particular, is that her life is shrouded in mystery and we don't really know that much about it, but what we know is so tantalizing that we see snippets, we see mentions, we see allusions, and other characters say a lot about her, but always in this very oblique manner, and Thetis herself always remains silent. She very rarely says something about her past history, about her entanglements with other gods, but what we see is so incredible that I am really happy to discuss this with you today.

Liv Albert (5:00)

Yeah, I mean, she is such an enigmatic character, in not a unique way, but certainly one of the more unique goddesses in that way.

I know that most of the earliest sources we have that survive on her are gonna be the Iliad, because the earliest source. But in the Iliad, she is so focused on being Achilles' mother, and we get these glimpses of her past. But I don't even know where to begin. Maybe can you remind my listeners of the glimpses we do get of her there, and how those things led you to this argument that you worked on in this paper?